Why use such a simple model🙂
http://www.vishay.com/docs/60107/freqresp.pdf
SMD again has many advantages...
These are a decent reference to the parasitics...
http://www.resistorguide.com/resistor-capacitance/
http://www.resistorguide.com/inductance/
And illustrating you 20dB decade etc:
http://www.edn.com/design/components-and-packaging/4423492/Resistors-aren-t-resistors
Would these effects be relevant at audio frequencies, the parasitics would have to be bad... Also with some of the spread out layouts with PTH components how much of an effect would the parasitics added by the layout. If a ground plane is not used then the parasitic inductance will be quite large, the capacitance much lower... This is sort getting into the realms of RF/microwave, what level are the effects at audio frequencies?
http://www.vishay.com/docs/60107/freqresp.pdf
SMD again has many advantages...
These are a decent reference to the parasitics...
http://www.resistorguide.com/resistor-capacitance/
http://www.resistorguide.com/inductance/
And illustrating you 20dB decade etc:
http://www.edn.com/design/components-and-packaging/4423492/Resistors-aren-t-resistors
Would these effects be relevant at audio frequencies, the parasitics would have to be bad... Also with some of the spread out layouts with PTH components how much of an effect would the parasitics added by the layout. If a ground plane is not used then the parasitic inductance will be quite large, the capacitance much lower... This is sort getting into the realms of RF/microwave, what level are the effects at audio frequencies?
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It has an impact, no doubt about it.
However, a significant difference in audio can be obtained by changing the component pins from copper to silver alone.
Parasitics components will always be there, they can be larger or smaller.
Precisely Vishay resistor is very perfect, and is anyway one of the resistors that provides a significant sound imprint.
I think the more that matter, what the real component is made of (material).
Materials which are also included in the parasitics components.
The same applies to capacitors.
Ps. Sorry my bad english, complain to google translate
Why can not I edit my post, it is very unsatisfactory😡
I would like to add to the last line:
it applies to capacitors, coils, cables, connectors, printing, yes all pasive components plus active.
It is a universal solution to what we experience as hifi entueaster.
I disagree, all you are changing is a minute value of resistance....
Have you any informative reading on what difference materials are going to make and here I presume you mean the metal used!
Again I have to ask, will the parasitics have that much effect at audio frequencies, I personally doubt they will but would like to hear other views as all the data I can find seems to be at frequencies well above 20kHz.....
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Yes you are right TK. Offcourse you need a very good stereo and good acoustic memory to hear the difference.
Provide some proof instead of hearsay, explain how the lead material of a resistor would make a difference... Let me guess silver sounds a bit brighter than copper.....
Also explain then how parasitic are going to have an effect at audio frequencies...
Your first reply is a serious audiophile true believer answer... Golden ears and a high end system....
Some hard evidence and facts would be interesting to see... some science based evidence would be nice.
Also explain then how parasitic are going to have an effect at audio frequencies...
Your first reply is a serious audiophile true believer answer... Golden ears and a high end system....
Some hard evidence and facts would be interesting to see... some science based evidence would be nice.
You have 30 mins to edit your posts. It's in da rules. Then they are locked for all eternity unless a moderator can be asked to change it.
I too doubt. Unless you are a new breed of superhuman with an aural memory that lasts more than the 30 seconds or so that the other 7 billion of us have to live with. If you can remember long enough to solder in a new component you should immediately donate your ears to science!
Marce,
There actually are some issues with leads and terminations in resistors.
Some of the cheap leaded resistors have gone to copper plated steel similar to what is found in some capacitors. The iron really does produce a measurable distortion under some conditions.
The second issue is the tightness of the connection between lead cup in some designs and the resistance element after lead bending. A real issue with some designs.
Then there is the thermoelectric effect from having different materials in contact. Normally if the resistor is at constant temperature this shouldn't be a concern unless on end has a higher resistance contact as in the previous problem.
Now I can measure all of these issues, however that does not mean that they can be heard.
Then there are the issues of dispersion, skin effect and electron scattering. There was one newbie who did post that resistors don't distort. They do but all perceivable effects need not be limited to distortion.
Of course there are a number of perception issues involved. On D. Selfs current vinyl bit I did mention the tale of Eugene and how attitude colors perception even without memory.
There actually are some issues with leads and terminations in resistors.
Some of the cheap leaded resistors have gone to copper plated steel similar to what is found in some capacitors. The iron really does produce a measurable distortion under some conditions.
The second issue is the tightness of the connection between lead cup in some designs and the resistance element after lead bending. A real issue with some designs.
Then there is the thermoelectric effect from having different materials in contact. Normally if the resistor is at constant temperature this shouldn't be a concern unless on end has a higher resistance contact as in the previous problem.
Now I can measure all of these issues, however that does not mean that they can be heard.
Then there are the issues of dispersion, skin effect and electron scattering. There was one newbie who did post that resistors don't distort. They do but all perceivable effects need not be limited to distortion.
Of course there are a number of perception issues involved. On D. Selfs current vinyl bit I did mention the tale of Eugene and how attitude colors perception even without memory.
Actually at first there were issues with terminating surface mount parts, but they mostly got fixed.
So yes good surface mount parts can easily outperform leaded ones.
However as the power handling is often less and that increases thermal distortion sometimes you need to use more surface mounted parts to get the thermal distortion down to the same levels. Of course then device layout geometry comes into play. Doing that correctly helps to reduce stray inductance.
I'm sorry but I have no evidence.
I am an electronics engineer and would like to have evidence, but do not have them.
But I have made a lot of experiments over many years where the only realitiske explanation is a form of "material sound."
Same capacitor with aluminum and copper, sound difference.
The same cable with silver and copper, sound difference.
Same resistance with silver and copper pins, sound difference.
Decouple large electrolyte with a very very very small film capacitors (MKT), sound difference.
Paraell couple a very very very large resistor with a small resistance of the second type, audio difference.
Patina wire with silver or gold, sound difference, and significant sound difference between silver and gold , (it is interesting).
Mechanical Damping of pasive components, sound difference.
in addition it is a possible explanation that can explain what hi-fi entuister and Diy exercising experience all over the world in the same way.
Also "snake-oil" is partly explained by "sound material"
Still waiting on some published references. As mentioned LIGO can "see" waves on the shore from 3000mi away and they have a very nice article on SMT resistors for instrumentation no mention of these. G wave detection is probably one of the most sensitive instrumentation problems ever, orders of magnitude below anything we talk about here (maybe even 10 raised literally to the power of infinity). 😀
??? We really aren't communicating here.
Dispersion is a well know issue. Including how much it affects the audio band (1e-10 or less.)
Now skin effect for the audio frequencies comes in on resistors that are wound with wire greater than about 22 gauge.
Electron scattering contributes to resistance, I suspect you can find a few bits on that.
I guess not, electron scattering IS resistivity (sigma). As with "it's not about drift velocity" and electrons trapped before they get to the other end, I simply like to see some vetted articles (I remember electrons rather than EM waves propagating at 2/3 c for a while).
Again not one reference to raise an eyebrow, the self heating and TC stuff is old hat BTW.
Agreed. The scientific literature and personal experience says that aural memory for small differences starts going downhill with switching delays starting around 1 second.billshurv said:
0.5 second is pretty safe.
After one second or three, listener sensitivity has gone to #$!! in a hand basket.
That kind of raises the question of what about most cable switching comparisons that take far longer. The answer is: Sighted Evaluations.
Well I gave the benefit of the doubt. There are a couple of references I found that said 20 seconds, so 30 was outside of ANY accepted literature, to make my point. Still an order of magnitude less time than you can solder your silver leaded beauty in onto something plated copper 🙂
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