I am starting a new league. It's a "League Against Low Efficiency Loudspeakers". Please pledge your allegiance if you want to be a member. Nothing else is required, no fee, no duties...well, may be a burning of low efficiency loudspeaker here and there...
More later.
More later.
There's usually more wood in a hi efficiency speaker for a bigger and more pleasing fire🙂
I won't be a member, I'll leave now.
I won't be a member, I'll leave now.
Well, it is "lower." 😉 Most speakers find themselves in the medium range, of course.
IMO, if you can get a real 94dB 1m/1W, you've entered high efficiency territory.
IMO, if you can get a real 94dB 1m/1W, you've entered high efficiency territory.
Especially these days, a TRUE 93 dB would probably be more sensitive that most speakers. And some of those horn specs-hello, Klipsch?-I simply don't believe, unless they are measuring in 1/8 space or something.
I'll join the league! I am not in high efficiency and want to get back to that.
However, I'll forgive low efficiency in some cases, like little desktop speakers.
I'll join the league! I am not in high efficiency and want to get back to that.
However, I'll forgive low efficiency in some cases, like little desktop speakers.
I am in. Running horns from 200HZ up and a fairly efficient pair of IB subwoofers.
I tend to go to RMAF every other year to remember that no amount of pwer is going to beat it.
I tend to go to RMAF every other year to remember that no amount of pwer is going to beat it.
I'm in, do you run therapy classes for people who have far too many mid-efficiency speakers???? In my favour, I usually add a .5 woofer rather than loose eff in a BSC inductor....
& I do have a pair of EVM12Ls, but haven't used them for anything except some guitar heroics...
& I do have a pair of EVM12Ls, but haven't used them for anything except some guitar heroics...
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Why "Against"?
Hey, Adason:
Sorry, a league "Against" anything sounds a bit intolerant to me, why not make it "For" the topic of your choice, and leave it at that?
Don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of high efficiency (in speakers as well as a lot of other things), but I'm not about to go knocking on the door of my fellow audio enthusiast who's still rocking his set of 1970's vintage I.Lirpa "LSH" (Loudspeaker Space Heater - anyone else remember their ads?😛)
Just sayin'...
Hey, Adason:
Sorry, a league "Against" anything sounds a bit intolerant to me, why not make it "For" the topic of your choice, and leave it at that?
Don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of high efficiency (in speakers as well as a lot of other things), but I'm not about to go knocking on the door of my fellow audio enthusiast who's still rocking his set of 1970's vintage I.Lirpa "LSH" (Loudspeaker Space Heater - anyone else remember their ads?😛)
Just sayin'...
Any League against low efficiency speakers MUST ALSO BE a League supporting high efficiency Class_D amplifiers.
Loudspeaker data
Efficiency Percent Sensitivity
1.0________100%_____112 db 1w1m
0.2________20 %_____105 dB 1w1m
0.1________10 %_____102 dB 1w1m
0.05________5 %_____ 99 dB 1w1m
0.02________2 %_____ 95 dB 1w1m
0.01________1 %_____ 92 dB 1w1m
0.005______0.5 %_____89 dB 1w1m
0.002______0.2 %_____85 dB 1w1m
0.001______0.1 % ____82 dB 1w1m
0.0001____0.01%_____72 db 1w1m
====Conduction angle classes====wikipedia===
Class A 100% of the input signal is used (conduction angle Θ = 360°). The active element remains conducting all of the time.
Class B 50% of the input signal is used (Θ = 180°); the active element carries current half of each cycle, and is turned off for the other half.
Class AB Class AB is intermediate between class A and B, the two active elements conduct more than half of the time
Class C Less than 50% of the input signal is used (conduction angle Θ < 180°).
A "Class D" amplifier uses some form of pulse-width modulation to control the output devices; the conduction angle of each device is no longer related directly to the input signal but instead varies in pulse width. These are sometimes called "digital" amplifiers because the output device is switched fully on or off, and not carrying current proportional to the signal amplitude.
There are several other amplifier classes, although they are mainly variations of the previous classes. For example, class-G and class-H amplifiers are marked by variation of the supply rails (in discrete steps or in a continuous fashion, respectively) following the input signal. Wasted heat on the output devices can be reduced as excess voltage is kept to a minimum. The amplifier that is fed with these rails itself can be of any class. These kinds of amplifiers are more complex, and are mainly used for specialized applications, such as very high-power units
Loudspeaker data
Efficiency Percent Sensitivity
1.0________100%_____112 db 1w1m
0.2________20 %_____105 dB 1w1m
0.1________10 %_____102 dB 1w1m
0.05________5 %_____ 99 dB 1w1m
0.02________2 %_____ 95 dB 1w1m
0.01________1 %_____ 92 dB 1w1m
0.005______0.5 %_____89 dB 1w1m
0.002______0.2 %_____85 dB 1w1m
0.001______0.1 % ____82 dB 1w1m
0.0001____0.01%_____72 db 1w1m
====Conduction angle classes====wikipedia===
Class A 100% of the input signal is used (conduction angle Θ = 360°). The active element remains conducting all of the time.
Class B 50% of the input signal is used (Θ = 180°); the active element carries current half of each cycle, and is turned off for the other half.
Class AB Class AB is intermediate between class A and B, the two active elements conduct more than half of the time
Class C Less than 50% of the input signal is used (conduction angle Θ < 180°).
A "Class D" amplifier uses some form of pulse-width modulation to control the output devices; the conduction angle of each device is no longer related directly to the input signal but instead varies in pulse width. These are sometimes called "digital" amplifiers because the output device is switched fully on or off, and not carrying current proportional to the signal amplitude.
There are several other amplifier classes, although they are mainly variations of the previous classes. For example, class-G and class-H amplifiers are marked by variation of the supply rails (in discrete steps or in a continuous fashion, respectively) following the input signal. Wasted heat on the output devices can be reduced as excess voltage is kept to a minimum. The amplifier that is fed with these rails itself can be of any class. These kinds of amplifiers are more complex, and are mainly used for specialized applications, such as very high-power units
good point there w_oswald...
I do not want to sound negative, but what is the point of making large HD tv with beautiful picture, when it's housing pathetic terrible no bass low efficiency high distortion low dynamics squawkers pretending to be speakers?
And most of those sound bars which are supposedly to fix this isssue are not much better either...
I'm of the thought that "League for the Advancement of High Efficiency Loudspeakers" puts a much more positive spin on the discussion.. lol
I'm somewhere in the 100dB efficiency range with Onken (Jensen Ultraflex) inspired bass bins, mids via JBL 2440 on 2382A bi-radial horns, and highs via Fostex T-825 bi-radial horn tweeters.
I'm somewhere in the 100dB efficiency range with Onken (Jensen Ultraflex) inspired bass bins, mids via JBL 2440 on 2382A bi-radial horns, and highs via Fostex T-825 bi-radial horn tweeters.
Hi,
I'm not in. Efficiency is always a trade off of size, bass and SPL.
Necessary for flea powered amplifiers, but still limited SPL.
I'm for physics. Basically the bigger the speaker the higher
the efficiency you should aim for within reasonable limits.
I'm not up for high efficiency speakers the size of a small
fridge that go earbleeding loud for the same response as
a much more sensibly chosen size and sensitivity, that
in all probability has a higher maximum bass SPL level.
rgds, sreten.
I'm not in. Efficiency is always a trade off of size, bass and SPL.
Necessary for flea powered amplifiers, but still limited SPL.
I'm for physics. Basically the bigger the speaker the higher
the efficiency you should aim for within reasonable limits.
I'm not up for high efficiency speakers the size of a small
fridge that go earbleeding loud for the same response as
a much more sensibly chosen size and sensitivity, that
in all probability has a higher maximum bass SPL level.
rgds, sreten.
I'm not in.
In my experience speakers tend to start to sound good when they are fed around 1W or something in that region.
I was never happy with highly efficient speakers playing at low volumes when they are driven by milliW but equally unhappy with inefficient speakers driven to within an inch of their lives.
So for me it is horses for courses: For nearfields efficiencies in the mid 80s are perfectly fine but if I want to fill a larger room I'd aim for mid 90s or better.
Always aiming that I'd use a Watt or two rms at typical use.
In my experience speakers tend to start to sound good when they are fed around 1W or something in that region.
I was never happy with highly efficient speakers playing at low volumes when they are driven by milliW but equally unhappy with inefficient speakers driven to within an inch of their lives.
So for me it is horses for courses: For nearfields efficiencies in the mid 80s are perfectly fine but if I want to fill a larger room I'd aim for mid 90s or better.
Always aiming that I'd use a Watt or two rms at typical use.
as Mr Darwin posited above - horses for courses, and if I'm interpreting sreten's comment correctly - Hoffman's Iron Law can also be invoked - not all of us have the space to allow multi-driver highest efficiency systems to work properly.
and mr oswald - Audio Magazine's April issue was always my favorite - does anyone have those stashed away for posterity?
and mr oswald - Audio Magazine's April issue was always my favorite - does anyone have those stashed away for posterity?
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I thought a decent low is 90dB/oct.
But since we're on the subject, why don't we see speakers above 8 ohms impedance anymore?
But since we're on the subject, why don't we see speakers above 8 ohms impedance anymore?
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