I'm just saying an old coot with a (nearly) full-range ESL system thinks his $4 DAC and Red Book parameters plays just as well as he has ever heard his system play.
For sure, I'd sooner admire a system with a $4 DAC than any with a cone speaker.
Ben
Ben, Nico
it appears to me that you both still think all dacs sounded the same
i would highly recommend that you to try more models or even go DIY like many of us
if they all sounded same to you, then its a very good chance that the bottleneck is the rest of your system
it appears to me that you both still think all dacs sounded the same
i would highly recommend that you to try more models or even go DIY like many of us
if they all sounded same to you, then its a very good chance that the bottleneck is the rest of your system
If your friend give you a Mola Mola DAC, will you call that a $0 DAC?
I think the cheapest Sound Blaster uses high quality Wolfson DAC chip.
Jay/Ben
thanks, your final posts cleared up a lot for myself and I hope others lurking here and afraid to ask.
thanks, your final posts cleared up a lot for myself and I hope others lurking here and afraid to ask.
I am not sure that there is a bottleneck in my amplifier, I think it responds with near light-speed to electrons moving around in it.😱
My speakers are another story though,
they play for another few seconds or even a minute after I switch the amplifier off. 
It could be my big speaker boxes buffering and storing a few seconds of music.🙄the difference is just too obvious that no blind test is ever needed
its much more meaningful to do blind test between lossless and lossy (e.g 320k mp3) for those who claim can hear a difference
It is possible. If we look at a hifi as an information processing system, if a DUT clearly allows information to get thru that the other device does not, no blind test is really needed, since there is a there/not-there situation.
Anyone who hasn't had such a comparison happen either has something in their system that limits the DDR or everything they test is close to perfect.
dave
Funny thing, I was just reading a book that had quote form Carl Jung (although I have nothing else good to say for him):
"it's like looking at something and not seeing the eyeglasses on your nose".
That's exactly how i feel about people who think they are unconditionally unbiased and they don't need no blind test. In fact, I think people who feel that way are actually more susceptible to fooling themselves since they are both in ignorant denial of something taken for granted by every informed person and they take no care to defend against it.
Of course, as Planet10 says, there are black-and-white instances. But certainly not in the gear we are talking about here.
Ben
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Usually the differences are "like night and day" and can even be appreciated by the wife in the kitchen (who MUST NOT be an audiophile for her view to be valid).
The trouble is as many have pointed out, these difference disappear under DBT conditions because the poor little Audiophiles are so stressed they can hardly tell the difference between an 80's soundblaster and a modern day 50K hi-fi. Further unless your system has at least 4 zeroes (and preferably more) after the first two digits then it is incapable of picking up the nuances of sound often commented on... And finally measurements are totally useless, because no one knows what to measure, ears are far more sensitive so measurements like DBTs are a pointless waste of time... far better to worship some Audio Guru and follow his teachings....
🙂
sorry guys
i forget 1 important factor regarding the so called blind test: age
does it mean anything to you?
HSMC - Age related hearing loss
i forget 1 important factor regarding the so called blind test: age
does it mean anything to you?
HSMC - Age related hearing loss
for me its certain
basically i cant hear anything above 13kHz now
i am quite sure that 18kHz is no problem when i was still a teen
basically i cant hear anything above 13kHz now
i am quite sure that 18kHz is no problem when i was still a teen
And the relevance is... with a DBT you remove sighted bios so it is there to tell if you can hear a difference, so whilst important (hearing ability) you should still be able to tell whether there is a difference between a or b.
Now if you had stated that all these Oldish Audiophile Gurus spread around giving sage advice to their disciple's regarding these night and day differences between this device and another or the benefits of 24/96 etc. are all partly deaf and so their views should be taken with a pinch of hearing aids I would have respected you comment... As is its just another smo0ke screen to hide the benefits of actually checking your perception with some form of blind testing and also not having the arrogance to think you have superior hearing and control over your senses that age related deafness and expectation bias does not affect you.....
Sorry to point out one important factor in not using blind testing and relying on perception....
marce i do welcome your opinon 🙂
i believe i am just an average person and no golden ear of any kind
however with my degrading hearing its still enough for me to cover some important area such as vocal and some common instruments
i can hear some (rather) realistic clean drums with my current diy dac, while my old soundblaster dac can barely do some bom bom
i wont bother to do blind test to taste out which is orange and which is apple
ofcourse it will be lot more tough to distinguish between the top dacs here, even if i can get one
i believe i am just an average person and no golden ear of any kind
however with my degrading hearing its still enough for me to cover some important area such as vocal and some common instruments
i can hear some (rather) realistic clean drums with my current diy dac, while my old soundblaster dac can barely do some bom bom
i wont bother to do blind test to taste out which is orange and which is apple
ofcourse it will be lot more tough to distinguish between the top dacs here, even if i can get one
well of course there 'are' some boutique DACs which fall into the 'musical instrument' camp. They have abysmal measured performance and so win awards all over the place and provide much amusement to us all 🙂 These would certainly be 'night and day', especially the glowy units. This comes into the 'Umami' category of audio MSG.
You need to understand what "Hi-Fi" means when it comes to sound reproducing audio electronics.
Sometimes i wonder if this forum is like my BMW motorcycle forums where the average age seems to be 60.
About presbycousis, very variable and like other ergonomic parameters, few people are average. I get tested every couple of years but FR tests stop at 8kHz. I wonder how many car-audio fanatics have the nerve?
If anybody thinks it makes any difference to have treble over say 14kHz on music, they should try defeating it. For sure, none of us can have useful acoustic measurements in our music rooms in that range or have any idea how to properly collect meaningful high-treble measurements except in the neighbourhood park (because just simple-minded sticking your mic in the air won't do it).
Easy to make the El Greco fallacy in comparing one person to another.
Finally, a real disadvantage for the kids: I have a PopScience test record with a repeating bass glide tone (now ripped to my music server) that I've listened to hundreds of times (maybe thousands) on dozens of set-ups... since maybe 1958. Now that's good methodology.
Ben
About presbycousis, very variable and like other ergonomic parameters, few people are average. I get tested every couple of years but FR tests stop at 8kHz. I wonder how many car-audio fanatics have the nerve?
If anybody thinks it makes any difference to have treble over say 14kHz on music, they should try defeating it. For sure, none of us can have useful acoustic measurements in our music rooms in that range or have any idea how to properly collect meaningful high-treble measurements except in the neighbourhood park (because just simple-minded sticking your mic in the air won't do it).
Easy to make the El Greco fallacy in comparing one person to another.
Finally, a real disadvantage for the kids: I have a PopScience test record with a repeating bass glide tone (now ripped to my music server) that I've listened to hundreds of times (maybe thousands) on dozens of set-ups... since maybe 1958. Now that's good methodology.
Ben