Nope, just up to DSD128 with this chip if you read between the lines. Please correct me if I am not seeing this right. Upsampling requires processing power and resources and more needed for greater depth of Fs and this chip simply cannot handle beyond a certain level. And also the type of algorithms used, if you look at HQPlayer's
You would most likely hear positive feedback on the Amare because there are also other things contributed to the sound besides the $5 chip. Better if you can get your Mirus DAC out there for a shootout 😀
Yes you are right. It looks like minimum 176.4 PCM is required in order to upsample to DSD 256 🙁. Kinda sucks but still allows PCM input to your DAC without PC based SRC/SDM.
I understand that. But the guy who's gonna test it, is gonna compare upsampling redbook to DSD with HQ player, to feeding the same track as redbook untouched from HQplayer so the chip does the upsampling. This is the only way to truly test the chip against HQplayer.
If you want to get serious, here's the chip you would use. It can even do 64 bit floating point DSP, has state of the art next gen Async, Ethernet input, USB, PCI express, SD card, AVB, and more. And it can output I2S/DSD direct over several channels. I can imagine it could handle up sampling to DSD 1024 as well. Not to mention the Linux compatible Arm processor that can run software.
ADSP-SC589 | data sheet and product info Dual-core SHARC+ and ARM Cortex-A5 SOC, dual DDR, 2xEthernet, 2xUSB, SDIO, PCIe, 529-cspBGA | Analog Devices
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Thanks! we will wait for the results then. Costs nothing this way 🙂
Couldn't agree more with DSPs but at the end if the day it is how the algorithms are crafted to the best effect. E.g. there are many PC based SRC/SDMs out there but Signalyst beats them. Likewise, DSP solutions from EMMlabs, PSaudio, MSB all talk about their own unique proccessing techniques apart from the hardware. So we need someone like Jussi on board also for DSP stuff!
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Yes I suppose the hardware is the easy part. The programming knowledge not as easy. Yes I think Jussi is the man required to program this chip. Give him a shout!
Not easy to move his mountains! More inclined with Moore's law doing all the heavy lifting. But we will never know, maybe a tranche of $$$.......$ 😀
Multichannel is possible, please see my earlier post:
With BBB, it is best to mount everything and wire up on a motherboard
Once, I have finalized the design I will show you a diagram for this integration.
I’m not sure why the mention of DSP has come into the thread. But in general I think DSP is solving problems in linearity and acoustics in the wrong way and place, so always sub optimum. Messing about with an inferrior resampling chip in the digital domain is getting us right back to what we want to get away from. Unless maybe when you want to Bi-amp, although I'd still be in favour of active filtering. So hopefully this will remain another modular aspect which can easily be omitted.
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The DSP is to convert PCM to DSD as well as preform SDM and SRC. This is required for PCM formats to be compatible with these DAC's.
The role of DSP in DACs can be a little confusing.
Even a pure PCM DAC like the R2R types will usually have a DSP backend e,g. Soren's DAM1021. Why, because we need to upsample Redbook to x8 (325.8k) to push away the Nyquist aliasing stuff and make this filtering easier. But there is the upsampling mess to clear up also. So all get complicated and more processing required. As you can see quite a bit devoted to filter brewing on Soren's thread. HQPlayer does the same thing with all this gibberish sounding filter names 😀
Of course, if sometime in future, Redbook gets abandoned in favour of higher Fs recording like DxD (352.8k) then we can do away with SRC altogether in PCM DACs - so no DSP, NOS 🙂
From what I see this may not happen because of file size, storage and streaming BW issues. So until then some form of DSP functions required in every modern DAC, either integrated on-chip or external
The other option is to live with NOS/No DSP DACs like TDA1541 for Redbook.
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That’s my understanding too. I owned the DAM1012 and followed the Soren Filter brewing thread closely.
The direct drive implementation I have in mind, most definitely will be NOS & dedicated for DSD only.
Any LP/FIR filter can either be applied in software like HQPLayer (where CPU is cheap and software easily upgraded) either/or for on/off-Line PCM to DSD conversion, if necessary. Or filtering can be applied in the analogue domain.
Like you are suggesting, we are still looking for an on/off-line PCM to DSD conversion solution. But I expect this will be solved soon.
In the meantime, I would prefere to play with two DAC’s instead of using a FPGA/DSP, on for DSD and one for PCM based content. The only downside I see is that I would need to throw a switch on the pre-amp, and possibly select another output device in software.
The direct drive implementation I have in mind, most definitely will be NOS & dedicated for DSD only.
Any LP/FIR filter can either be applied in software like HQPLayer (where CPU is cheap and software easily upgraded) either/or for on/off-Line PCM to DSD conversion, if necessary. Or filtering can be applied in the analogue domain.
Like you are suggesting, we are still looking for an on/off-line PCM to DSD conversion solution. But I expect this will be solved soon.
In the meantime, I would prefere to play with two DAC’s instead of using a FPGA/DSP, on for DSD and one for PCM based content. The only downside I see is that I would need to throw a switch on the pre-amp, and possibly select another output device in software.
Actually you mentioned 'owned' so I assumed you discarded this DAC. So must be very happy with how this DAC sounds compared with other types that you have tested?
Hi Acko, my daily driver is the PCM1794 based DDDAC and I've not heard anything yet that made me concider swapping it out, bar a NOS prototype no-dac (direct-drive) DSD dac, which is why I'm excited to see what you've come up with.
Thanks Stijn, much appreciated! We have now a very accurate reference to compare going forward 🙂
I was also thinking about a dual DAC system. Somehow I feel that a NOS ladder PCM DAC is best for PCM and NOS Direct DSD is ideal for DSD. Of course if transcoded PCM-DSD works out really well then we can reduce the complexity.
Some progress today, perhaps something to fill the gap until Acko's new DSD board is ready;
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/273474-best-dac-no-dac-35.html#post4502249
With my 'new' music PC, upsampling with HQPlayer from 44.1KHz FLAC to DSD256 was loading the cpu (Xeon E3-1240 3.3GHz) to around 32% so some headroom available to experiment with the different filters etc.
Also, I've been working on getting the BBB/Botic combo to work as a HQPlayer NAA. Some good progress, I've actually had the Botic NAA be discovered and configured via HQPlayer, but there's an issue with playback. Now waiting to see if Jussi at Signalyst can help out; it could be very close or a lot of work, depending on how it looks. Fingers crossed. I'll update in due course.
Ray
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/273474-best-dac-no-dac-35.html#post4502249
With my 'new' music PC, upsampling with HQPlayer from 44.1KHz FLAC to DSD256 was loading the cpu (Xeon E3-1240 3.3GHz) to around 32% so some headroom available to experiment with the different filters etc.
Also, I've been working on getting the BBB/Botic combo to work as a HQPlayer NAA. Some good progress, I've actually had the Botic NAA be discovered and configured via HQPlayer, but there's an issue with playback. Now waiting to see if Jussi at Signalyst can help out; it could be very close or a lot of work, depending on how it looks. Fingers crossed. I'll update in due course.
Ray
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Thanks Ray, very interesting progress!
I am also looking into this NAA that Jussi has recommended while waiting for his mastering tool for offline conversion.
I am also looking into this NAA that Jussi has recommended while waiting for his mastering tool for offline conversion.
@stijn001:
... I also have a (modified) version of the DDDAC and what continues to surprise me is its ability to somehow disappear and be so very nuanced - sort of like a chameleon shifting "clothes" between tracks in a positive sense. To my ears a quite musical DAC ...
However, I sometimes wonder how it would have been if Ardatech had progressed with their AT1401 DAC with a 24 bit R2R output delivering +/- 15.5 mA for a resistor ... (if interested the preliminary datasheet is attached) ...
Cheers,
Jesper
... I also have a (modified) version of the DDDAC and what continues to surprise me is its ability to somehow disappear and be so very nuanced - sort of like a chameleon shifting "clothes" between tracks in a positive sense. To my ears a quite musical DAC ...
However, I sometimes wonder how it would have been if Ardatech had progressed with their AT1401 DAC with a 24 bit R2R output delivering +/- 15.5 mA for a resistor ... (if interested the preliminary datasheet is attached) ...
Cheers,
Jesper
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