Hello, I have been considering building speakers with Accuton drivers for a while. I really like their detailed sound. I recently had a chance to pick up the Clearwave Duet 6 as pictured below that sound fantastic, but of course lack the low end. These have Accuton C25-6, and C158-6 drivers.
I have an custom built IB subwoofer - If you don't know what they are - check out the build. Basically is it a sub that uses an infinitely large enclosure relative to the driver specs. In my case I use another whole room as the enclosure(+ 10 x Vas). There are 4x18" drivers with 4000 watts behind them. They have super crazy clean non-boomy bass and are flat to 10hz after EQ.
The speakers and the sub mate very well, IB subs easily mate with planar and stats, but I would like for the speakers to take on more bass duty from ~40-250Hz. The IB sub, I can keep for the low bass duty from 10Hz to 40Hz.
I am considering building a bass cab to handle 40-250Hz. The Clearwave speakers could sit on top of the bass cabinet - or probably be attached somehow for obvious reasons. This would be copying designs like Krell Modulari Duo Reference which just looks like a speaker on a bass box.
I would be doing this as an active digital crossover before the digital signal is converted to Analog. Most likely will use a MiniDSP unit to achieve a setup similar to Linkwitz LX521.4 newer OB speakers. So this means I would have an amplifier for each driver. Initially, I may keep the crossover in the Clearwaves and just have active crossover between them and the bass box. Later, I may bypass the crossover in the Clearwaves for pure active speakers.
I find I really prefer sealed boxes - I find they usually have tighter bass, and less boxy sound. But that could be my my experience with average consumer speakers. But being that I only need to go down to 40, sealed should be ok. I have owned Magnepan, Whispers, and Martin Logans and have become terribly allergic to boxy speaker sound...it seems that even speakers costing $20K+ have boxy sound.
Space and cost are not issues. Willing to build cabinets with very thick walls... The IB sub I built has basically an 11" thick baffle. Sometimes I have to control myself to not over build and over do things.
I would like comments and advice on at least the following
I have an custom built IB subwoofer - If you don't know what they are - check out the build. Basically is it a sub that uses an infinitely large enclosure relative to the driver specs. In my case I use another whole room as the enclosure(+ 10 x Vas). There are 4x18" drivers with 4000 watts behind them. They have super crazy clean non-boomy bass and are flat to 10hz after EQ.
The speakers and the sub mate very well, IB subs easily mate with planar and stats, but I would like for the speakers to take on more bass duty from ~40-250Hz. The IB sub, I can keep for the low bass duty from 10Hz to 40Hz.
I am considering building a bass cab to handle 40-250Hz. The Clearwave speakers could sit on top of the bass cabinet - or probably be attached somehow for obvious reasons. This would be copying designs like Krell Modulari Duo Reference which just looks like a speaker on a bass box.
I would be doing this as an active digital crossover before the digital signal is converted to Analog. Most likely will use a MiniDSP unit to achieve a setup similar to Linkwitz LX521.4 newer OB speakers. So this means I would have an amplifier for each driver. Initially, I may keep the crossover in the Clearwaves and just have active crossover between them and the bass box. Later, I may bypass the crossover in the Clearwaves for pure active speakers.
I find I really prefer sealed boxes - I find they usually have tighter bass, and less boxy sound. But that could be my my experience with average consumer speakers. But being that I only need to go down to 40, sealed should be ok. I have owned Magnepan, Whispers, and Martin Logans and have become terribly allergic to boxy speaker sound...it seems that even speakers costing $20K+ have boxy sound.
Space and cost are not issues. Willing to build cabinets with very thick walls... The IB sub I built has basically an 11" thick baffle. Sometimes I have to control myself to not over build and over do things.
I would like comments and advice on at least the following
- Am I nuts - is this dumb?
- What is the ideal crossover point between the bass box and the C158-6?
- What bass driver or drivers would you recommend? Looking for very high quality, quick, tight, accurate, fast, punch your gut, clean bass over 40-??? that would mate with the Accuton mid woofer. (I have heard that the Accuton woofers are not all that great compared to other offerings....true?)
- How large of a driver/drivers should I use?
- Thoughts as to the design of the box? I would insist on building something as inert and as braced as possible while also maybe having non parallel walls. I am not going to make these 11" think, but will have at least 2" thick walls and be well braced. I don't want them vibrating at all. I would not build anything curved at this point.
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Making it with the Duets and a simulation of the enclosures as close to the original as I could you have (fig.1) for the 12-14L and 43Hz with bass response -3dB@42Hz. If you change it to a sealed (simulated, closing the ports with something flexible) speaker you get (fig.2) with a nice frequency drop at about F-6 dB/50 Hz to 150Hz/200Hz (flat), so that would be my target for the upper woofers or 40Hz - 150Hz. In 4*Pi (LF) you have 82.5 dB/2.83V/m (2*Pi 86.5 dB/2.83V/m) so that you know the sensitivity +/~required for the woofers since u will be multi-amp.
If you want to build a similar encloser to the pictured by you "Modulari Duo" you can use the similar alu ScanSpeak 8 or 10". In the same way you can use the very high quality Accuton woofers in a similar 90L sealed enclosure.
Considering that you have/need some BSC at some point with the room and speaker front baffle more the XO conjugate, you will have to match that with your subs (IB), that if you go with Accuton S220-6-221 8" link - you have in a 45L sealed plenty response to 40Hz (F-3dB@39 Hz) with one driver, having in 4*Pi 83.4 dB/2.83V/m and 89.5 dB/2.83V/m with two drivers in parallel and a sealed 90L.
Another driver (discontinued) you can consider using, in a ~90L sealed cabinet is the 25W/8565-01 - Scan-Speak (with F-3dB@37 Hz) and available at Meniscus.
Scan Speak, 25W/8565-01
In a 55/65L sealed cabinet with WOOFER 25W/8567-SE - Scan-Speak (F-3dB@39 Hz)
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/25w-8567-se.pdf
Have fun.
If you want to build a similar encloser to the pictured by you "Modulari Duo" you can use the similar alu ScanSpeak 8 or 10". In the same way you can use the very high quality Accuton woofers in a similar 90L sealed enclosure.
Considering that you have/need some BSC at some point with the room and speaker front baffle more the XO conjugate, you will have to match that with your subs (IB), that if you go with Accuton S220-6-221 8" link - you have in a 45L sealed plenty response to 40Hz (F-3dB@39 Hz) with one driver, having in 4*Pi 83.4 dB/2.83V/m and 89.5 dB/2.83V/m with two drivers in parallel and a sealed 90L.
Another driver (discontinued) you can consider using, in a ~90L sealed cabinet is the 25W/8565-01 - Scan-Speak (with F-3dB@37 Hz) and available at Meniscus.
Scan Speak, 25W/8565-01
In a 55/65L sealed cabinet with WOOFER 25W/8567-SE - Scan-Speak (F-3dB@39 Hz)
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/25w-8567-se.pdf
Have fun.
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I have a friend that says I should be using a high quality 15" driver or 2 12" drivers to have some more viceral impact to the bass. I don't think I want to try the Accuton 11" at $1500 each. Any suggestions in that area?
Making it with the Duets and a simulation of the enclosures as close to the original as I could you have (fig.1) for the 12-14L and 43Hz with bass response -3dB@42Hz. If you change it to a sealed (simulated, closing the ports with something flexible) speaker you get (fig.2) with a nice frequency drop at about F-6 dB/50 Hz to 150Hz/200Hz (flat), so that would be my target for the upper woofers or 40Hz - 150Hz. In 4*Pi (LF) you have 82.5 dB/2.83V/m (2*Pi 86.5 dB/2.83V/m) so that you know the sensitivity +/~required for the woofers since u will be multi-amp.
If you want to build a similar encloser to the pictured by you "Modulari Duo" you can use the similar alu ScanSpeak 8 or 10". In the same way you can use the very high quality Accuton woofers in a similar 90L sealed enclosure.
Considering that you have/need some BSC at some point with the room and speaker front baffle more the XO conjugate, you will have to match that with your subs (IB), that if you go with Accuton S220-6-221 8" link - you have in a 45L sealed plenty response to 40Hz (F-3dB@39 Hz) with one driver, having in 4*Pi 83.4 dB/2.83V/m and 89.5 dB/2.83V/m with two drivers in parallel and a sealed 90L.
Another driver (discontinued) you can consider using, in a ~90L sealed cabinet is the 25W/8565-01 - Scan-Speak (with F-3dB@37 Hz) and available at Meniscus.
Scan Speak, 25W/8565-01
In a 55/65L sealed cabinet with WOOFER 25W/8567-SE - Scan-Speak (F-3dB@39 Hz)
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/25w-8567-se.pdf
Have fun.
Thank you inductor I will check it out.
I believe one Acoustic Elegance TD15S or two TD12S per channel would be ideal for your build.
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Hi Bdlitzer,
I'm no real expert, but I've been thinking since long time to my future Accuton based speakers (hope this future is not too far), and I'm happy to give you some suggestions...
The C158-6-085 is probably the driver you are referring to, and not the C158-6-851, whose motor is much worse than the former.
So C158-6-085 will be probably my mid-bass, but if your budget is higher, you may consider two options: the C173-6-096E or the new CELL C90-6-724
The woofer for 80-250hz maybe an Audio Technology Flexunits 12 D 77 25 10 KAP with sandwich cone, or even the 15". Honestly I don't how they would compare to the new Accuton Cell woofers, 9 or 11 inches.
The crossover should be digital, ideally using FIR filters generated with software like Audiolense.These Xovers have important advantages when used with hard membrane drivers, since it's possible to send no signal at all at the breakup frequency. I think that most of the people who have found ceramic drivers harsh, must have dealt with their breakup behaviour.
Let's listen to other contribution and ideas
Hi,
You have low subs that that can easily go up to 80Hz.
There is no point IMO using them only below 40Hz,
and building stuff to go down to 40Hz if not needed.
rgds, sreten.
IB subs are incredible, but they just don't have the upper bass punch you feel in your solar plexus. Very hard to explain if you have never heard IB subs before. They are can easily move dishes around upstairs, but don't quite give you that leading edge you get with boxed subs/speakers. Dipole base is similar but does not go deep as IB does.
With subs it is not about IB, BR, TLS or whatever. Instead it is all about in room equalization as you yourself show on page 11 of your build description.
Correct.. Everything I listen to has been digitally equalized to correct for room issues and taste. The difference in sound quality after EQ is the difference between $300 speakers and $20,000 speakers(and I do have $15k speakers). I use Dirac as the first pass at equalization and phase/impulse correction(jury still out on that). I will soon have the ability to parametrically EQ and cross over each driver in the system as well.
I have some bass traps and diffusors and absorbers as well - best to fix the room and not try and EQ problems away as much as possible. Below is the treated room response without any EQ.
I am not going to build speakers/bass cab that only go down to 80Hz - just for resale type issues if nothing else. I may or may not use 40-80Hz region depending on how it sounds and interacts with my room and the IB sub.
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Any progress with this project? I'm quite interested in how those C158's sound. A woofer that may suit is the SB34NRX75-6(sealed)
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