I think you need to step back and think the big picture through.
The following questions come to mind:
a/ What ADC are you using to record the music / sounds with? All
commercial audio ADC's are DS. So it looks like your chain is breaking rules
from the get go.
b/ What will be distribution medium? Is this for Hi Rez download?
c/ You have to bear in mind that -you- may have the worlds best R2R DAC
for monitoring but how many other people will have access to the same
play back, if indeed the music is for public consumption.
d/ Considering c/, maybe a very very good DS DAC -is- the best solution for
monitoring as you will be hearing something closer to what most people
buying your music will.
e/ What is in the chain prior to ADC. Microphones, mic pre's etc etc can
make more difference than the ADC / DAC combined.
It's not clear what your real or complete purpose is and as such the best
solution is also not clear.
T
No adc at the moment,I will get some multibit adc in future like the GAIN system by Mike Moffat and Nelson Pass,I will make my own adc at some point,it will be the flash type
Yes hi rez download
I absolutely do not care what will other people playit through
Very intresting question. I would concider a true DSD dac. If only low frequency is required a discrete DSD dac with a lowpass could be easily build. The Doede DDD DSD prototype dac I heard had great dynamics, best I ever heard. Unfortunatly it's not yet available. could be soon though. You could contact him, with your particular requirement.
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Perhaps natural instruments such as pianos, violins, guitars, harpsichords, timpani drums....have a more complex waveform than sythesized pianos, violins, guitars, harpsichords, timpani drums....?
Please explain. My argument is that synthetic music has no natural reference, like instrumental music has. We all know how a piano or a violin should sound. But what if a synthesizer signal output is 1 or 2 bits off? Your brain can't compare it to any natural sound, so you won't recognize the difference. You don't work with pure sine waves, but your signals have some harmonic content. Who will recognize if your 3rd harmonic is at -45dB instead of -60dB? It will be apparent for an acoustic reproduction, but not for electronic music where you don't have an ideal sound in your mind, telling how the given istrument/voice/orchestra should sound. This is because you haven't heard that synthetic sound before, it sounds unnatural (which is not a problem in itself) because you don't have a reference to compare it to. This is a well known fact, and I can't imagine any electronic music that is exception to it.
becose it doesnt have natural reference doesnt mean electronic music doesnt need/benefit from accurate dac,thats argument is not logical.Just becose you cant compare to real world doesnt mean that quality control on dac side doesnt matter
I dont need natural reference,I have great understanding of sound and can Imagine the sound it my head after looking at the sine wave that make up the square wave,I calculate the harmonics and visualize what shape it should have.I dont need natural reference to know precisely how the synthethic sound is supposed to sound
"
You don't work with pure sine waves" actualy I do,my prefer synthethis is additive synthethis and re-synthethis and that is pure sinewaves
"Who will recognize if your 3rd harmonic is at -45dB instead of -60dB? " who will not? maybe my deaf grandpa,I did experiments with second and third order harmonic,the -45db and -60db difference is obvious
it true 99% of synthethic sounds sound unnatural,but that is fault of creator not fundamental problem of all synthethic sounds.I love syntethic sounds made to sound organic,you can make synthethic music that you cant recognize from real sounds if the producer have high skill and proper tools
goobicii, it is more clear now. I agree synthetic music can sound mighty.
What is the purpose of the ADC that you mentioned a few comments before (flash type ADC)? I guessed you would create sysnthetic music by electronic means, perhaps by a computer or a digital audio workstation?
What is the purpose of the ADC that you mentioned a few comments before (flash type ADC)? I guessed you would create sysnthetic music by electronic means, perhaps by a computer or a digital audio workstation?
FYI about the Trinity DAC:
In case it hasn't already been pointed out, the Trinity oversampling process is not performed in the digital domain. It instead performs analog domain interpolation by summing the output currents of multiple time-interleaved PCM1704 chips (on the order of 16 or 32 chips per channel, as I recall). This, then, effectively gives an 16 or 32 times oversampling ratio. The net impulse response is the same as would be produced by a moving average digital filter of the same oversampling ratio, and is similar to that of NOS in terms of filter ringing characteristic.
I'm not recommmending the Trinity since I haven't heard it. I just wanted to note that there's more going on with it than is conveyed by simply viewing it as another oversampling DAC. If you're looking for a professionally finished, commericially avaialble unit, and not a DIY solution, it may be worth considering given your objectives.
as for the AD5791 dynamic performance - the datasheet has an awful 100 dB number for 1 kHz but with a weird sample rate too
the switching glitch discussion, plots do suggest a problem for dynamic performance
several ways have been used since DACs were potted modules to reduce switching glitch problems
but making one of them work to -120 dB over full digital audio range is a challenge - not a seen in existing articles, app notes I know of
the switching glitch discussion, plots do suggest a problem for dynamic performance
several ways have been used since DACs were potted modules to reduce switching glitch problems
but making one of them work to -120 dB over full digital audio range is a challenge - not a seen in existing articles, app notes I know of
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So, I'd like to buy a Soekris dam1021-01 at some point when I have the money. It looks so sexy 🙂
But I can't help thinking: Is 0.01% resistors really "good enough" for a 24-bit R2R DAC?
In theory 0.01% would only be accurate enough for a 13-bit DAC, since the MSB in a 13-bit DAC would need an accuracy of at least (1/(2^13))*100 = 0.012%, whereas 14 bits require at least (1/(2^14))*100 = 0.006%.
To get a truly accurate 24-bit R2R DAC, the MSB resistor would need to have an accuracy of at least (1/(2^24))*100 = 0.000006%.
Or am I wrong?
I know that 0.01% is the best(?) resistor tolerance normal mortals can get their hands on, and that most of the resistors in that classification actually has a higher accuracy, so I can imagine that the dam1021-01 handles 16-bit material quite adequately. But are the additional 8 bits not worth utilizing?
Am I just being way too picky? 🙂
But I can't help thinking: Is 0.01% resistors really "good enough" for a 24-bit R2R DAC?
In theory 0.01% would only be accurate enough for a 13-bit DAC, since the MSB in a 13-bit DAC would need an accuracy of at least (1/(2^13))*100 = 0.012%, whereas 14 bits require at least (1/(2^14))*100 = 0.006%.
To get a truly accurate 24-bit R2R DAC, the MSB resistor would need to have an accuracy of at least (1/(2^24))*100 = 0.000006%.
Or am I wrong?
I know that 0.01% is the best(?) resistor tolerance normal mortals can get their hands on, and that most of the resistors in that classification actually has a higher accuracy, so I can imagine that the dam1021-01 handles 16-bit material quite adequately. But are the additional 8 bits not worth utilizing?
Am I just being way too picky? 🙂
I think Soekris covered those points somewhere in his (long) thread. No you're not wrong - with the proviso that resistors in a DAC only need relative accuracy (not absolute accuracy). They also need to track together over temperature, not just have the correct ratios at one temperature.
Goobicii
consider old good Pacific Microsonics model 1, or Pacific Microsonics model 1
HDCD AD + DA device. dac is r2r
If You have chance to find some used on the web?
That will You cover up recording and reproducing studio standards.
.
In some of my earlyer dacs I used pmd100 with R2R dac chips
and I can say that was really good...
.
also take real care about groundings of the computers in the studio.
some isolation transformer should be placed in power line
And also in final audio signal line.
cheers
.
consider old good Pacific Microsonics model 1, or Pacific Microsonics model 1
HDCD AD + DA device. dac is r2r
If You have chance to find some used on the web?
That will You cover up recording and reproducing studio standards.
.
In some of my earlyer dacs I used pmd100 with R2R dac chips
and I can say that was really good...
.
also take real care about groundings of the computers in the studio.
some isolation transformer should be placed in power line
And also in final audio signal line.
cheers
.
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