Advice on internal wiring upgrade for a pair of B&W 800D's

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#66
R-Carpenter said:
Out of curiosity, do you guys measure speakers like B&W before and after changing parts in the crossover? I mean, what are you trying to achieve by changing a foot of wire?
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Normally, I measure at the speaker driver terminals. Yes, it will differ. Going by the right technical means, there will be improvements; however, how this will audibly be perceived depends on driver performance.
 
#67
Great Topic - thanks so much for photographing B&W's crossover components and wiring.


I have a pair of N804's and no other driver I've heard can get the transient responce of a piano right like the FST mid range unit.

I haven't heard diamond tweeters,
However, the problem with B&W's metal dome tweeters is that they are more accurate than most sources.
Certainly, they will show all the flaws in a CD.

So With B&W's, I Highly recommend a pair of tubes in the source or pre amp
1960's Siemens e88cc are a good match with B&W's tweeters.

Another issue with B&W's - the source and preamp must absolutely have clean hydro.
Have you considered getting a hydro regenerator for the source and preamp ?

The tweeters can also be calmed down by using Van Den Hul Interconnects.

In my B&W 603 s2's, I replaced the stranded tin plated wiring to the tweeter,
with solid strand 20 awg OCC copper wire and this helped calm the tweeter.
Think there are only 3 companies in the world who are licenced to make OCC
copper wire. But its sold by Neotech, Furutech, Audioquest etc.
IMO, with B&W's, solid strand copper wire to the tweeter is the way to go.
However, I have not heard VDH speaker cable with B&W's.

My advise is to try the cable you are considering external to your 800D's,
before even considering changing the internal wire.
But understand that if you rewire it, the 800D's will loose value.


Also, the issue of soldering is an entire topic.
I wouldn't even touch the crossovers unless the person doing it has expertise with soldering audio equipment.
.
 
#69
I'd probably leave them alone. If they were willing to use good crossover parts because they're aware of the sonic benefits, it's unlikely that they would have neglected $20 extra dollars of wire if it made a difference.

Put them back together and let them be for a proper break-in period. Now there's something you'll notice a difference on!
 
#70
wow, I've read it all now....firstly I would say leave them the hell alone for at least three months if not six months of continuous running, speaking from experience of the minimum it took for my 802's to break in I had a love/hate relationship until the let loose. B&W research and development team were told cost no object do you not think they would have extensively researched each and every component that went into those boxes? rise times on caps, inductors etc...van den hull has been used for years by B&W. I think too much money may have caused some brain damage here, why don't you rip the caps out of your Classe' gear and run them on batteries?
 
#75
I think you dont know about what you talk 🙂

have you an htm1D and dismounted it ? have you look the electronic schema of 80xD and 80xDi ? do you know what is the difference between the model 800, 801, 802 and htm1d for the crossover ? it seems no....

I will be happy to learn you the difference.
 
#76
jojip is at least somewhat correct. One cannot achieve a superior sound by substituting "high end" capacitors in place of generic PP film capacitors, if you carefully match the values. I don't quite agree with this part of his statement: "...they are tuned to the limit by the designers..." because I find B&W speakers to be painful to my ears most of the time that I have attempted to audition their higher end models in Manhattan or Tokyo.

Mortyre said:
I founded this post.

I want to do the same with my htm1D (mundorf supreme silver/gold oil for tweeter and mundorf supreme for middle) to upgrade like 800D2 diamond crossover.

I ordered the caps.
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My friend sent some custom built speakers to a high end dealer in Germany using his specific "Gold" (supplied by the man in German) capacitors to build the speakers. He also included one pair of the same model of speakers built with "generic" PP film capacitors. He asked the German audio dealer for him and his friends to audition the speakers and see if they could find any difference in listening tests. [Obviously] they could not hear any difference and could not tell my friend which pair of speakers had the "generic" capacitors. He said he still wanted to continue using the expensive capacitors in the speakers he sold, since some customers "preferred" to buy speakers built with such components, even though there is no audible difference - even, no measurable difference in the final product (the speaker) when switching between different brand capacitors (so long as you find two which are equal value).
 
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#78
Mortyre said:
I think you dont know about what you talk 🙂

have you an htm1D and dismounted it ? have you look the electronic schema of 80xD and 80xDi ? do you know what is the difference between the model 800, 801, 802 and htm1d for the crossover ? it seems no....

I will be happy to learn you the difference.
Click to expand...

Very well. I stand corrected. Please go ahead with what pleases you and what your hard earned money allows you to do.
 
#79
Mortyre said:
I think you dont know about what you talk 🙂

have you an htm1D and dismounted it ? have you look the electronic schema of 80xD and 80xDi ? do you know what is the difference between the model 800, 801, 802 and htm1d for the crossover ? it seems no....

I will be happy to learn you the difference.
Click to expand...
I think you will hear a difference, but it may not be improvement for the following reasons:

1. The impedance of the speakers are not flat, at least not when I last looked at many of their designs. This means there is more interaction with the amplifier that you can imagine.

2. The mid drivers are woven fibres (at least to the best of my knowledge is kevlar) This generally causes some rough edges in the mid highs which cannot be corrected without a driver change.

There is really not much you can do unless you at least design a new crossover. But the drivers are still limiting.

I think the original Nautilus is a much better candidate to play around with since you have to use external crossovers anyway.
 
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#80
soongsc said:
I think you will hear a difference, but it may not be improvement for the following reasons:

1. The impedance of the speakers are not flat, at least not when I last looked at many of their designs. This means there is more interaction with the amplifier that you can imagine.

2. The mid drivers are woven fibres (at least to the best of my knowledge is kevlar) This generally causes some rough edges in the mid highs which cannot be corrected without a driver change.

There is really not much you can do unless you at least design a new crossover. But the drivers are still limiting.

I think the original Nautilus is a much better candidate to play around with since you have to use external crossovers anyway.
Click to expand...

same answer you don't know what about you talk 🙂

1- the impedance ? if I change only the cap by the same value but just with an improvment of them there is no problem. the problem is for inductance not the caps. the cross over used on htm1D is the same as 800D.

2 yes the midrange is kevlar and it is the same driver for the 800Di, 802di and htm1D, no enhancement. the mid crossover for 800di has just new caps for improve sounds. I do the same as B&W

3 the crossover from the fisrt version of 80x (nautilus) is totally different of diamond version.

4 for the tweeter the enhancement of crossover is only the improve of cap from mcap mundorf at mcp mundorf silver gold oil.

--> please go to B&W Group North America Service & Support - Home and look the schema of crossover for 800D, 801D, 802D, HTM1D, 800D2, 802D2, you will see by yourself 🙂

for information I have 802D and 802Di and HtM1D at home, so I checked the right information of schema from b&w
crossover for bass : caps is the same for D and Di version
crossover for middle : just simple evolution of caps from mcap mundorf to mcap mundorf supreme
crossover for HF : mcap mundorf to mcap mundorf silver gold oil
 
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