Interesting video of box to compare 6 different 12AX7s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkjVvTRP1h0
At 1:52 he plays the same thing, with a chart showing which tube it is.
At 2:30 he uses a looper to play exactly the same thing, with a chart showing which tube it is.
Opinions on the sound?
They sound fairly similar to me, perhaps the limitations of a recording. Live would be much
more interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkjVvTRP1h0
At 1:52 he plays the same thing, with a chart showing which tube it is.
At 2:30 he uses a looper to play exactly the same thing, with a chart showing which tube it is.
Opinions on the sound?
They sound fairly similar to me, perhaps the limitations of a recording. Live would be much
more interesting.
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I really didn't hear much difference. Of course I am listening through computer speakers, although they are older JBLs with a bass port, so not too bad for computer speakers.
I use old stock Amperex,Mullard, RCA,GE, Tungsram and a few Brimars and they all have any new tube beat. The golden age tubes have much more fullness of sound, harmonics, etc. Remember, new Tung Sol, MUllard, etc. are just new tubes with old names which Russian and other manufacturers have bought the rights to the brand name. Many are no different then Sovtek.
I had a Peavey Classic 30 that I have since sold, put in a set of old stock preamp tubes and I essentially had a new amp. Fuller,richer sound. There was no comparison. And that was only preamp tubes. I still had the Sovtek EL84s in.
I use old stock Amperex,Mullard, RCA,GE, Tungsram and a few Brimars and they all have any new tube beat. The golden age tubes have much more fullness of sound, harmonics, etc. Remember, new Tung Sol, MUllard, etc. are just new tubes with old names which Russian and other manufacturers have bought the rights to the brand name. Many are no different then Sovtek.
I had a Peavey Classic 30 that I have since sold, put in a set of old stock preamp tubes and I essentially had a new amp. Fuller,richer sound. There was no comparison. And that was only preamp tubes. I still had the Sovtek EL84s in.
All my tubes are from the 1970s and older, most of them test fine.
I'm not that into tubes but I have a pretty decent supply.
It would have been nice if they had put one old Mullard, or any decent vintage
type in there for a reference.
I'm not that into tubes but I have a pretty decent supply.
It would have been nice if they had put one old Mullard, or any decent vintage
type in there for a reference.
The modern production tubes have all been "improved" and there are minor differences between strong tubes. The AX7 is the model in the lineup with the least variation, which is one reason the OEM's use them. Less parts = more profit, less variation = higher consistency (a key indicator in quality mgmt.) from unit to unit. The AU7 and AT7 are not as consistent and even-sounding. They also have less potential gain per triode than the AX7.
The older tubes are less "improved" than their successors. There were multiple manufacturers who designed the tubes for vastly desparate purposes. The brands with reputations in the audio industry got these reputations by designing tubes that do not sound flat and ultra-linear. Others were designed to survive plane crashes and nuclear blasts and such. With older tubes, the consistency of brand was not always there, either.
This is how the "tube rolling" got started back in the day. In the 1960's, one could go down to radio shack and buy two dozen tubes for $50 or less. Mr. Audiophile would NEED new tubes every couple of years anyway. Upon purchase, a night would be spent rolling through a dozen of these and a dozen of those to find the best few. The lesser sounding tubes would be returned for a refund or resold. Nowadays, quality and consistency is much higher with everything that is a commodity, not just vacuum tubes.
The older tubes are less "improved" than their successors. There were multiple manufacturers who designed the tubes for vastly desparate purposes. The brands with reputations in the audio industry got these reputations by designing tubes that do not sound flat and ultra-linear. Others were designed to survive plane crashes and nuclear blasts and such. With older tubes, the consistency of brand was not always there, either.
This is how the "tube rolling" got started back in the day. In the 1960's, one could go down to radio shack and buy two dozen tubes for $50 or less. Mr. Audiophile would NEED new tubes every couple of years anyway. Upon purchase, a night would be spent rolling through a dozen of these and a dozen of those to find the best few. The lesser sounding tubes would be returned for a refund or resold. Nowadays, quality and consistency is much higher with everything that is a commodity, not just vacuum tubes.
I am really surprised by this response. Are you familiar at all with having work done in China and the quality control issues?
I believe the the US companies in the 60s and 70s while ISO 9000 did not exist at the time when they got a military job they learned how to improve their methods and that trickled down to their commercial parts. This is just my speculation as to why the old tubes are so good.
I believe the the US companies in the 60s and 70s while ISO 9000 did not exist at the time when they got a military job they learned how to improve their methods and that trickled down to their commercial parts. This is just my speculation as to why the old tubes are so good.
The issue in China is this:
1. We shipped all of our production equipment over there, with tons of engineers and executives to set it all up. Some of us are still over there, raking in large sums of money to keep the stuff going onto the boats.
2. The Chinese are not all illiterate idiots. That being said, the vast majority make $50 a week or less, which is good pay in a communist nation. One factory bloc turns out 32 brands of the same thing. The only difference is materials or tooling. As long as the products are not completely defective someone will buy them, turning whatever profit margin is conjured up by us on the open market. The "premium" products sell for more profit.
3. We keep buying, so they keep producing. Simple plan, works like magic...
Not even remotely the same as most of the rest of the world. To add to the imbalance, the Chinese government has been manipulating their currency at will the whole time.
1. We shipped all of our production equipment over there, with tons of engineers and executives to set it all up. Some of us are still over there, raking in large sums of money to keep the stuff going onto the boats.
2. The Chinese are not all illiterate idiots. That being said, the vast majority make $50 a week or less, which is good pay in a communist nation. One factory bloc turns out 32 brands of the same thing. The only difference is materials or tooling. As long as the products are not completely defective someone will buy them, turning whatever profit margin is conjured up by us on the open market. The "premium" products sell for more profit.
3. We keep buying, so they keep producing. Simple plan, works like magic...
Not even remotely the same as most of the rest of the world. To add to the imbalance, the Chinese government has been manipulating their currency at will the whole time.
Totally disagree. At least about returning tubes back then,not the economics lesson in post #6. I have 70-80 old stock, not NOS, and all of them are strong and excellent sounding. Even after 50 years, they have much more complexity of tone. All you need to know is the problem with the octal JJs to know about consistency. They have been frying left and right. The newer tubes do not have the complexity of tone. Read my post #2.
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Are you saying you personally work or are involved with work in China?
This is really getting off topic, and I'm not interesting in a debate.
Agree totally. This is not a thread about economics but about tubes' differences. As stated before, these new companies have no similarities to the old names of the past. The new companies merely have bought the trademark. Many are even made in the same factory. No wonder they don't sound much different. The old tubes are so good because the name meant something. Their reputation depended on a good product. Not so today. Interesting thread PB2.
I agree that there is no comparison between the old stuff and the new products. I like the old ones better and am willing to pay extra.
Would help, if he would play something a little more interesting haha, Old stuff is a good bit better No question about it.
With that said, I still like the JJ ecc83s and Chinese 12ax7s that are so ganiy like falling into a nuclear reactor etc haha, use them for all the stupid gained out/excessive distortion sounds.
With that said, I still like the JJ ecc83s and Chinese 12ax7s that are so ganiy like falling into a nuclear reactor etc haha, use them for all the stupid gained out/excessive distortion sounds.
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