I'm going to put up a chart which has X's CHN70 measurement compared against his Vifa Measurement. I've scaled arbitrarily in the Y axis to get them to line up the way I wanted to do it.
The thing that struck me was how similar they were between about 800 Hz and 5.5Khz. I suspect that the baffle/cabinet are having quite an effect in this range. Yes there are differences, but the major deviations from flat seem to be fairly consistent.
I would ask the question, how much of this is the drivers, and how much is the cabinet/baffle/other unknown factors?
I wasn't going to put up any comparisons, or draw conclusions. But I do think that this needs to be pointed out.
Do I think that X's measurements can be compared to the manufacturers datasheets? NO.
Do I think that X's measurements are of no use? NO.
Do I think that there is room for improvement? YES.
Do I think that the ******* match needs to end? ABSOLUTELY!!
That goes for BOTH of you!
Tony.
The thing that struck me was how similar they were between about 800 Hz and 5.5Khz. I suspect that the baffle/cabinet are having quite an effect in this range. Yes there are differences, but the major deviations from flat seem to be fairly consistent.
I would ask the question, how much of this is the drivers, and how much is the cabinet/baffle/other unknown factors?
I wasn't going to put up any comparisons, or draw conclusions. But I do think that this needs to be pointed out.
Do I think that X's measurements can be compared to the manufacturers datasheets? NO.
Do I think that X's measurements are of no use? NO.
Do I think that there is room for improvement? YES.
Do I think that the ******* match needs to end? ABSOLUTELY!!
That goes for BOTH of you!
Tony.
Attachments
To add to what Tony has put (and thank you!), it'd be really good to know that these are all representative devices. (We're seeing a well made and appropriately caveat'd measurement, for sure, but of one device)
Given the focus on the CHN70, it'd be really nice if some other folks could corroborate or refute what's been measured. That would hopefully moderate the back and forth.
Admittedly, that's an expensive proposition. (I'm certainly appreciative the effort thus far)
*Same thing happens on photo fora--one decentered lens makes it onto a testing bench and the whole place goes off the rails. It's almost silent thereafter when multiple other tests come along that refute the one bad lens, though.
Given the focus on the CHN70, it'd be really nice if some other folks could corroborate or refute what's been measured. That would hopefully moderate the back and forth.
Admittedly, that's an expensive proposition. (I'm certainly appreciative the effort thus far)
*Same thing happens on photo fora--one decentered lens makes it onto a testing bench and the whole place goes off the rails. It's almost silent thereafter when multiple other tests come along that refute the one bad lens, though.
I just did a quick on-axis measurement of my CHN70 on a ~20x30" baffle hanging off a pull down projection screen - cost me a trim piece on a 60 year old Karlson when my big foot/boot hit the edge
its on axis - 1/24 then 1/12 then 1/6 resolution - when I repair my K, I'll mount CHN70 in a different location on the baffle - might be a while have to order fresh glue
the driver was offset vertically from center but centered horizontally - if I had a larger baffle then would try to offset things properly.
its on axis - 1/24 then 1/12 then 1/6 resolution - when I repair my K, I'll mount CHN70 in a different location on the baffle - might be a while have to order fresh glue
the driver was offset vertically from center but centered horizontally - if I had a larger baffle then would try to offset things properly.
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In real life it sounds ok, with the top end roll off that it's supposed to have.
jeff
Thanks Freddi--seems the characteristics from 1k-up show in yours as well. Hope the toe and the trim find themselves well.
(Jeff--thanks as well, but I was hoping for measurements.)
(Jeff--thanks as well, but I was hoping for measurements.)
steel toe heavy boot wins vs 60 year old Formica 😀- rather hurt the toe than the precious K....
I just did a quick on-axis measurement of my CHN70 on a ~20x30" baffle hanging off a pull down projection screen - cost me a trim piece on a 60 year old Karlson when my big foot/boot hit the edge
its on axis - 1/24 then 1/12 then 1/6 resolution - when I repair my K, I'll mount CHN70 in a different location on the baffle - might be a while have to order fresh glue
the driver was offset vertically from center but centered horizontally - if I had a larger baffle then would try to offset things properly.
Thanks for the measurement Freddi. It confirms the salient features at issue.
I'll have to run one more sweep then substitute a 4fe32 to see if the ripple is a function of the horizontal centered driver cutout (or white Styrofoam baffle vibration-?). My camera got lost during a power outage so can't show the shoddy setup.
here's an old in-room graph of my 15" Silver Iris
here's an old in-room graph of my 15" Silver Iris
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Eh, my first post and straight to the fire..
OK, ill have Eighteensound 6ND430 and Vifa TC9FD18-08 pairs.
Have to do something with them. Im leaning to:
(Disclaimer ill cross these with diy stereo subwoofers with 8pcs of 6,5"subs.
These 2-ways dont need to play low)
Plan: About 5 liters box for 6ND430 (they are 4ohm) and Vifa at 1,5 liters sealed tube inside of main box. Eighteensound is tuned approx 90hz. Vifa starts about at 750-900hz, havent decided yet.
My question:
Is this 1,5 liters sealed good choice for my plan.
Ill know that i run in problems with different impedance drivers (Vifa 8ohms ja 6ND430 4ohm). Driver sensitivies differ also very much and i have to attenaute eighteensound quite bit. Is this problem, and if so, why?
Any suggestions to using these drivers are well noted.
OK, ill have Eighteensound 6ND430 and Vifa TC9FD18-08 pairs.
Have to do something with them. Im leaning to:
(Disclaimer ill cross these with diy stereo subwoofers with 8pcs of 6,5"subs.
These 2-ways dont need to play low)
Plan: About 5 liters box for 6ND430 (they are 4ohm) and Vifa at 1,5 liters sealed tube inside of main box. Eighteensound is tuned approx 90hz. Vifa starts about at 750-900hz, havent decided yet.
My question:
Is this 1,5 liters sealed good choice for my plan.
Ill know that i run in problems with different impedance drivers (Vifa 8ohms ja 6ND430 4ohm). Driver sensitivies differ also very much and i have to attenaute eighteensound quite bit. Is this problem, and if so, why?
Any suggestions to using these drivers are well noted.
Welcome, if using TC9 and a bunch of 6.5 woofers, check this out:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/249984-cheap-fast-ob-literally.html
There are a couple of boxes I can recommend for the TC9 that will sound clean and natural besides OB: Nautaloss sealed tapered spiral TL, and the Dagger vented tapered short TL. Both will probably have less coloration and more of an "open" sound than a small prismatic box. 1.5 liter is too small for a TC9FD - 3 liters min if sealed.
Nautaloss: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/247598-nautaloss-ref-monitor.html
Dagger: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/268037-fast-tl-8.html#post4192688
The Dagger is the easiest to make and only uses 4 boards.
Good luck!
Btw, get a miniDSP 2x4 - it will make all this very easy.
From what Mark said about the design of this speaker the FR measures are in general pretty consistent with the design goals. CHN70 was designed specifically for the Japanese market and the deviation from flat-response is as requested by the end-users.
That this driver made it to North America is down to Madisound wanting to take advantage of the price point.
dave
planet10, Derfnofred, Great thanks.
It did come so long and got into test because in datasheet point two says "Natural sound (near flat response)" plus the plot, then bought as interesting driver.
It did come so long and got into test because in datasheet point two says "Natural sound (near flat response)" plus the plot, then bought as interesting driver.
If you have a look over in X's subjective thread, you will see that in his setup the chn-70 was very flat between about 800 hz and 5.5Khz, IMO probably the flattest in the bunch. It deviates substantially from flat outside this range.
This in my opinion makes it unsuitable as full range driver (except maybe for a particular audience as Dave points out above). I do think though that it has potential to make an excellent midrange if crossover over quite high.
Tony.
This in my opinion makes it unsuitable as full range driver (except maybe for a particular audience as Dave points out above). I do think though that it has potential to make an excellent midrange if crossover over quite high.
Tony.
wintermute,
Post of yours like bottom pushed 🙂, had excellent polars high up in frequency too.
Post of yours like bottom pushed 🙂, had excellent polars high up in frequency too.
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Given all the teeth gnashing on this forum regarding the CHN70, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't re-order more when their stock is gone.
jeff
Even from the plot you posted it appears that the TC9FD is flatter over 800Hz and 5.5kHz. Also, when using this as a mid, the responses below and above the XO points should be smooth for an octave below and above the XO point.
Depends on how well they sell i expect. XRK is the only one of many that have tried them and posted that they don't enjoy them. They might not have the flattest FR but they do some other things fairly well.
dave