Hi,
What's most disappointing to me is that one can't help but come to these observations. Trivial generalizations as they no doubt are, they are there and if anything, have grown worse and worse.
Cheers, 😉
What's most disappointing to me is that one can't help but come to these observations. Trivial generalizations as they no doubt are, they are there and if anything, have grown worse and worse.
Cheers, 😉
Hi,
Scott, I think you missed a few lines from that post.
The idea is to compare solid core to multi-strand wire, silver or copper not being relevant at this point. The latter could be the next stage.
The goal is not to decide which is better, just to establish if a difference can be heard.
Bottom line, demining service at work as the heat was building up. Hence the jokes and jest, etc.etc.
Cheers, 😉
Scott, I think you missed a few lines from that post.
The idea is to compare solid core to multi-strand wire, silver or copper not being relevant at this point. The latter could be the next stage.
The goal is not to decide which is better, just to establish if a difference can be heard.
Bottom line, demining service at work as the heat was building up. Hence the jokes and jest, etc.etc.
Cheers, 😉
Frank, the key thing as you say is how to measure it - any difference heard, and caused by altering the method of wiring. If I was there I would use a very short clip of heavily layered music, with a very high treble component, and create a track of that clip repeated over and over, for many minutes, say. Record the output of the speakers through sufficient quality mic's, and then go do some decent analysis of what's in there: spectrum, waveform shapes, etc ...
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Hi,
That's how I did it 25 years ago already, Frank.
Nowadays with digital storage and such it should be way easier.
That said, if you have some spare time and want to build your own power cords from solid core wire to compare with the usual run of the mill stuff, be my guest.
I assume you have solid core copper in the mains of the houses in Oz?
Cheers, 😉
That's how I did it 25 years ago already, Frank.
Nowadays with digital storage and such it should be way easier.
That said, if you have some spare time and want to build your own power cords from solid core wire to compare with the usual run of the mill stuff, be my guest.
I assume you have solid core copper in the mains of the houses in Oz?
Cheers, 😉
Indeed we do ...
Way ahead of you, Frank - been doing that type of thing for years, 😉 ... what works, works ...
Way ahead of you, Frank - been doing that type of thing for years, 😉 ... what works, works ...
Hi,
Quite possible.
I threw in the towel when I started to become annoyed by the lack of well recorded material.
Cheers, 😉
Quite possible.
I threw in the towel when I started to become annoyed by the lack of well recorded material.
Cheers, 😉
That's really, really interesting ... perhaps I was fortunate enough to make enough of the right steps early on, I realised that there is a very definite hurdle of quality, in the reproduction chain, that has to be overcome, for all recorded material to work in playback. This struck like a bolt of lightning, at the time - everything changed from then on; and, this realisation has only been confirmed, reinforced over the years. As a simple example, recordings I knew could sound exceptional would sound dreadful when played on dealer's systems 20 years ago, I gave up on this game - then, at the recent audio show in Sydney, several, just a couple of, setups "got the sound right" - there was a particular recording, as I knew it should sound, to a fair or even excellent degree of accuracy. And these were using components that were being hailed as "breakthrough" or "best of" in much of the buzz around the place - so, there is a convergence going on ...
SY, I have enjoyed the site you referenced regarding types of false reasoning/arguments. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com) Never realized that false logic types had a name and a very consistent description. Looking thru the different types, it is easy to see some of these fallacies being used everyday, either at work or in casual discussions. I even found myself guilty of a few.
Perhaps this site should be required reading before a person is allowed to post?
Perhaps this site should be required reading before a person is allowed to post?
And how do you know that the process of changing the wires is not the dominant cause of the change? Simply reconnecting connections will improve them, usually in measurable ways if only small improvements. If the internal connections are soldered many possibilities will be at play, not the least opening and resealing the port into the box where the wires are accessed.
Which is why nailing the cause and effect linkage can be a monster ... making one thing, and one thing only, alter can be very difficult - the combinations of factors can spiral out of control very rapidly, it becomes impossible to keep track of what is most important. The way I've learnt to deal with it is keep the end goal in mind - a certain standard of replay quality is the determinant, either I get closer to that objective, or I don't after a change; if the change is positive then I leave that variation alone, and move to some other factor that may have a bearing. By constant application of iterative improvements, I eventually reach a satisfactory level of performance ...
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Dejan
You may like to watch Woody Allen’s “Magic in the Moonlight”
Stanley: “When the heart rules the head, disaster follows” .
SY is Stanley (not that handsome as Colin Firth but hey! ) and acoustic perception is the prose of Sophie.
The charm of her character that captivated Stanley is for SY the power of music.
🙂
George
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Thank you for the tip, Frank, Actually, I have been follwing some devates elsewhere on the subject stranded vs. solid core cabling, and have been preparing to try out the solid core, something I've not done before. So I'm curious.
I currently use van den Hul 352 Hybrid multistrand cable, 5.5 mm2, I have to because due to the outlay of my current setting, I actually need 2x6 m (app. 20 ft) runs if I'm not to lose power along the way and experience odd events due to the cable.
It's called "hybrid" because, according to the manufacturer, it consists of a mix of silver coated OFC and carbon fibre strands. My wife's system uses van den Hul 122, which is the same cable, but 3.5 mm2, and it's half the length of my cable.
All that notwithstanding, I am curious about solid core cabling, so rest assured I will try them out.
However this is still a completely subjective judgement. Fine for you in your personal context, but not adequate for general application. There are emotional elements of things like color and smell that can affect the perception of the sound that do not affect the sound, not to mention precedence effects (whatever was happening before in the subject's intellectual and emotional world). Putting controls to remove these variations is really difficult, since the controls would affect the non-aural perceptions as much as the other things I mentioned. The controls alone are why many people detest double blind tests.
In the end its possible that a lot of the magic would leave and audio would be boring if we could really accurately do preceptual tests. Most compression algorithms are heavily tested with subjective test methods and the processes do work there.
Exactly so.
I said I was willing to try solid core cabling - however, that applies only to the amp-speaker connection wiring. I really don't wnat to fool around with internal wiring unless I really have to.
I'm not a big fan of Woody Allen, George, so I have not seen that movie.
And while I'll readily agree that the head should rule the heart in most cases, I must say I have seen some opposite examples pay very high dividends. Sometimes, admittedly rarely, the heart can be wiser than the head.
On a sentimental note, it's the heart which makes us human. The trick is not to lose control.
Regarding the love of music, that's a subject I steer clear of. Everybody has their own idea of what love in general is, and especially so regarding music. To me, music is the point, everything else is just a way to get to the music. But I have NEVER mistaken gear as the point of it all.
As an example, you could play say Katarina and The Waves' "Walking On Sunshine" on a ghetto blaster to me and my heart would still sing and my foot would still tap, I love that song. Of course, it's much preferable listening to it with my home system, but it's not essential, I would still enjoy it.
No matter what the oscilloscope, THD meter and whatnot say.
At the moment it is impossible to do things in a totally controlled fashion, I agree. Therefore, what I use is the "elimination of pain" technique, as the next best thing - I use passages of recordings which are extremely unpleasant if not rendered reasonably well - so, it's not a case of whether it sounds "better"; rather, does it sound less of a mess, is it less obnoxious to the ears? I'm not looking for "magic", I'm looking for sound that is more tolerable, 🙂. Say, the album Adele 21, wind up the volume - how long can I stand it, that type of thing ... 😀
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SY, I have enjoyed the site you referenced regarding types of false reasoning/arguments. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com) Never realized that false logic types had a name and a very consistent description. Looking thru the different types, it is easy to see some of these fallacies being used everyday, either at work or in casual discussions. I even found myself guilty of a few.
Perhaps this site should be required reading before a person is allowed to post?
I used to give links to more complete and formal descriptions, but this guy's humorous and utterly clear approach makes the point go over more easily. One of those sites that I wish I had written. I'm delighted that you found it useful.
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