Fedup with keeping the amplifier for burning as there are always alot of changes to do either changing the compensation caps or psu caps or cables or input caps each time it needs atleast 200 to 400 hours to fully settle. The problem is not that the problem the volume that i can crank up for the system which is limited hence thought to use
either
1. Ceramic high watt 50W 10 ohm or 100W 10 ohm resistor
2. Power resistor with heatsinks on it.
But my question: Can we do that?
either
1. Ceramic high watt 50W 10 ohm or 100W 10 ohm resistor
2. Power resistor with heatsinks on it.
But my question: Can we do that?
WHAT do you need to settle after 200 to 400 hours?
And suppossing it "settled" after such lengthy time, why would you need to change it again?
?????????????????????????
And what amp are we talking about?
I'd have to agree with JMF, anything that takes 200 hours to get to "settle" is a problem. In general, nothing ought to need to "settle".
If you are of the persuasion that cables or input caps need "break-in" my suggestion is that you "break-in" your cables at high(er) power external to your system, and for caps, put a signal on them external to your system, prior to installing them. By higher power I mean higher than the nil power expected to be carried by a high-Z interconnect or the cap at the input of an amp.
Compensation caps you ought to leave alone. Just use a high quality cap the first time.
_-_-
If you are of the persuasion that cables or input caps need "break-in" my suggestion is that you "break-in" your cables at high(er) power external to your system, and for caps, put a signal on them external to your system, prior to installing them. By higher power I mean higher than the nil power expected to be carried by a high-Z interconnect or the cap at the input of an amp.
Compensation caps you ought to leave alone. Just use a high quality cap the first time.
_-_-
None of the things you mention have no correlation to reality. You're parroting bogus claims made by fools with zero knowledge in the field - all with an agenda to make money off people without the sense to question this.
It appears that we are all not understanding what question is being asked.
Rhyth,
restate your question so that at least some of us can understand what you are asking.
Rhyth,
restate your question so that at least some of us can understand what you are asking.
He appears to have bought into the myth that any change in components in his amp need 200 to 400 hours to settle or "burn-in" as it is mistakenly called.
He appears also to believe that this process could be accelerated if he could run it at higher power, but is probably having neighbour trouble with 200 watts of music for 400 hours non-stop. 😱
Hence the oblique suggestion of a high power dummy load, with the speakers disconnected.
That's what I read into it. But since I don't subscribe to the burn-in nonsense I did not comment.
I do have some high power resistors bolted to a heat sink for power testing, though ....😀
He appears also to believe that this process could be accelerated if he could run it at higher power, but is probably having neighbour trouble with 200 watts of music for 400 hours non-stop. 😱
Hence the oblique suggestion of a high power dummy load, with the speakers disconnected.
That's what I read into it. But since I don't subscribe to the burn-in nonsense I did not comment.
I do have some high power resistors bolted to a heat sink for power testing, though ....😀
This may only be part of the issue.
The situation with some owners I know, of similar attitude to the OP, is they have been burning-in their "ears", not the caps. It does take time to acclimatise to a poor sounding amp or choice of parts but if it's really as long as 400 hours operation and you can honestly claim that after such a long interval you can hear a distinct difference, someone is obviously having themselves on - big time. 😉
Well you could, but there's a slight problem:
If you find you need 200 to 400 hours of burn-in after changing anything in your system, that means you'd need to do that amount of burn-in after hooking up the power resistors, before you use them to burn-in anything else. After that, you'll be able to burn in other stuff with the power resistors in place, but you won't be able to hear what difference the burn-in makes, as you no longer have speakers connected. Before you listen to anything again, you'll have to remove the resistors and reconnect the speakers, but that change will of course require another 200 to 400 hours of burn-in.
So for example, if you wanted to swap a power cord, the old method would be:
a) Listen
b) Swap power cord
c) Burn-in for 200 to 400 hours
d) Listen again
However, using the power resistors, you'd have to follow this procedure:b) Swap power cord
c) Burn-in for 200 to 400 hours
d) Listen again
a) Listen
b) Replace speakers with power resistors
c) Burn-in for 200 to 400 hours
d) Swap power cord
e) Burn-in for 200 to 400 hours
f) Replace power resistors with speakers
g) Burn-in for 200 to 400 hours
h) Listen again
b) Replace speakers with power resistors
c) Burn-in for 200 to 400 hours
d) Swap power cord
e) Burn-in for 200 to 400 hours
f) Replace power resistors with speakers
g) Burn-in for 200 to 400 hours
h) Listen again
Nothing wrong with that of course, but you won't be able to listen to music for 3 to 6 weeks while you change your power cord. I suppose it's all a matter of one's level of dedication, but I don't think I'd have the patience for that. YMMV, of course.
Love it.
🙂 Bear, welcome is answering the OP, not you 🙂
As far as break in, it does exist , is noticeable and measurable ... in *mechanical* stuff, such as speakers, car engines, new shoes and of course, Homer Simpson's TV coach "a s s groove"... which definitely takes 400+ hours of TV watching to take proper shape:
Now ...on a cable? .... on a resistor/IC/transistor/etc.? ...... you must be kidding !!! 🙄
You or I may not notice the effect, but you have to bear in mind that the OP has very sensitive hearing. IIRC, he was one of the few folks who could hear the difference between two bit-identical files, even after they'd been copied from one machine to another over the internet.
Experience has proved my solder techniques are primitive and nothing like the machines or experienced operators with expensive irons the factories used.
I prefer the problems show up on the bench with the covers off instead of behind the bookshelf or horrors, on stage. Amps don't fully heat up at the volumes I run in my living room, and heat stresses solder joints due to expansion. Some of my repair parts are salvage out of old power supplies and TV's, and RS grab bags from the seventies, and might not be of the highest quality, In fact visual inspection proves a lot of the RS grab bag stuff was rejects, perhaps something is wrong that can't be spotted visually (like incomplete case on caps with the metal showing). Those of you that have a Fry's or other shop on the way home from work have no feel for every stupid $.10 component you find defective costing a minimum of $6 freight plus a handling fee if you can't put a big enough order together to make it worth their while. $6 freight is newark, further warehouses like mouser and digitech charge $9 minimum, $12 from california. Small shops charge minimum $10 since they dont get the volume freight discount probably, and mcm charges $15 freight minimum with a built in handing fee I am sure.
I keep bags of old salvage parts around sorted by decade to advance my repair projects, but I can't say I exactly trust the stuff. If a part is in a bag with a label from newark, mouser, digitech, then I trust it and sometimes use it for a meter calibrator. Even cap markings on individual parts, does 220 mean 22 pf or 220 pf? Depends on the manufacturer and the year manufactured. Every cap meter I have owned is blown up, I'm tired of buying *****ese junk that lasts a year.
So I cook my amp a while after I make it work. with load resistors. I certainly don't want to listen to music at that high volume, on the PA amps particularly. I use a little 4 ohm car radio speaker across one 5 ohm resistor of several in series to keep an ear tuned to what is happening.
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Im not into debate my question was can i use just a high power resistor instead of using a speaker as at loud levels my neighbours even my wife gets disturbed.
I have observed the change and even my friends in blind folded test. I am very much contrary to cables make difference but when I listened to it i had to admit the fact that they sound much clear now. I have used Van Den Hul CS122 which is a very famous cable.
What ever the only question was that may I use the high power resistor for the load.
I have observed the change and even my friends in blind folded test. I am very much contrary to cables make difference but when I listened to it i had to admit the fact that they sound much clear now. I have used Van Den Hul CS122 which is a very famous cable.
What ever the only question was that may I use the high power resistor for the load.
Yes, your amp will run into a resistor instead of a speaker without harm, as long as the resistor is appropriate for the use. (Has sufficient power rating, resistance, etc)
Have you also considered that mains voltage is not steady and shifts around?
Have you also considered that mains voltage is not steady and shifts around?
Now you changed the subject from
This has 2 answers:
1) nothing against 2 x 3 mm copper speaker cable.
Copper is copper and a lot of it is better than too little.
2) That it has atoms thick silver plating, that the plastic sheath is CFC free or that the guy operating the machine took his coffee black that morning influences nothing.
3) that any electrical or mechanical property of said cable changes in any measurable way after 200 to 400 hours listening is not possible and if you claim so, you must prove it.
"I/my friends hear it" is not valid uncontested proof.
Double blind testing in controlled conditions where both you and a selected panel of friends accurately (that means more than 50% of the time which is just coin flipping chance) detect which cable is which, comparing 2 Van Den Hul CS122 cables, identical in length, connectors and soldering but one freshly made and the other has been used for 400 hours, will convince us.
If you reliably pass that test, of course.
to plain speaker cable .
This has 2 answers:
1) nothing against 2 x 3 mm copper speaker cable.
Copper is copper and a lot of it is better than too little.
2) That it has atoms thick silver plating, that the plastic sheath is CFC free or that the guy operating the machine took his coffee black that morning influences nothing.
3) that any electrical or mechanical property of said cable changes in any measurable way after 200 to 400 hours listening is not possible and if you claim so, you must prove it.
"I/my friends hear it" is not valid uncontested proof.
Double blind testing in controlled conditions where both you and a selected panel of friends accurately (that means more than 50% of the time which is just coin flipping chance) detect which cable is which, comparing 2 Van Den Hul CS122 cables, identical in length, connectors and soldering but one freshly made and the other has been used for 400 hours, will convince us.
If you reliably pass that test, of course.
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indianajo, burning in an amp that uses surplus parts in order to check reliability is just fine. Good idea.
many of us have acquired boatloads of "parts" just to avoid the insane shipping costs related to buying a handful of parts that might be needed... or having to over-buy parts that you don't need, in essence speculating, in order to make the ratio of parts:shipping better.
I sympathize!
Rhythmsandy, yes, use a high power resistor.
You can even put a high power resistor at the end of your speaker cable.
No problem.
200 hours is a bit excessive, imo.
And IF one asked me how to "break-in" speaker cable, it would not be by running a standard amp for 200+ hours. I prefer much higher powers for a shorter period of time. An electric heater works wonders as a load, and 120vac is good as a signal.
As far as reliably passing a blind test with said cables, let's skip that part, since that opens a huge can o' worms? Let's just say that IF you're going to do this sort of thing, try to be effective and efficient.
many of us have acquired boatloads of "parts" just to avoid the insane shipping costs related to buying a handful of parts that might be needed... or having to over-buy parts that you don't need, in essence speculating, in order to make the ratio of parts:shipping better.
I sympathize!
Rhythmsandy, yes, use a high power resistor.
You can even put a high power resistor at the end of your speaker cable.
No problem.
200 hours is a bit excessive, imo.
And IF one asked me how to "break-in" speaker cable, it would not be by running a standard amp for 200+ hours. I prefer much higher powers for a shorter period of time. An electric heater works wonders as a load, and 120vac is good as a signal.
As far as reliably passing a blind test with said cables, let's skip that part, since that opens a huge can o' worms? Let's just say that IF you're going to do this sort of thing, try to be effective and efficient.
I've been using 10 ohm 225 watt Ohmmite log resistors (with 8 ohm tap adjustment) to test since my tube amp days where something sapped all the power out of my ST70 about every 3 or 4 years. Voltage on 8 ohm resistor is the best tube test there is, also power supply capacitors test, bias capacitor test, main rectifier tube test, sort of like taking your amp to the drag strip. These 225 w logs worked on the ST120 transistor amp, too, even for setting the overcurrent detection circuit (6.75 amps trip).
Solid state amps have a "zobel" network on the output, a 8 mh coil parallel to a 10 ohm resistor usually, to make the output insensitive to inductive loads. This was added after shipment of the ST120, in the factory bulleten "TIP mod" documented by Greg Dunn.
When I tried to upgrade to 800 watt and 1.3 KW amps, I had to upgrade the load. I've got eight 5 ohm 200 watt resistors, also logs from Dale this time, without the tap. The PV-1.3k seems to like the load, and only oscillated when I made a bad solder joint in the OT base drive line (to install a fuse and limit collateral damage caused by exploding shorting OT's). I put the 4 ohm car speaker across one of these resistors, with a back to back 10kmf cap in series, to protect the speaker from DC when OT's go off. Amps sound funny when they are putting out DC, the speaker was a useful detection too. Turns out I'm not the only iffy solderer in the world, somebody at the Peavey factory in 1996 made a bad joint on an op amp DIP socket on the driver board that had the left channel unreliable (whang into DC) when hot for over a decade, right from the first day IMHO. I bought the amp with a "do not use channel A" dymo label stuck on it.
As far as components burning in, some of these "reject" parts I bought surplus or in grab bags (think electronic gold mine these days) might have very short life. I bought some bargain 4 mf 100 v plastic capacitors from Electronicsurplus, $1 each, a real bargain but when they came in they were shorted by 120 kohms. That indicates to me these were rejects with a bad metal sputtering job. I'm using them, since I drive them with a 15 kohm source, but who knows what the service life of a reject part will be. At least I baked them hot once in my resistor load test.
Wire, I can hear the difference between 10 gage (fat) and 16 gage (thin) at extreme high frequencies (top octave Steinway piano) on great speakers with a low distortion amp (CS800s), but I have my doubts about used wire vs new wire. A good oxygen free crimp (see the AMP application notes from the seventies) may inhibit insulating oxide inside the crimp, but not on the connector to connector blade surface. Again I've had good reliable connections with wires held under tight screws in terminal strips. (factory test system, RS232 signals) but I have not had good results with telephone punch blocks or auto wire harness connectors, which IMHO have low enough force the connection does not remain oxygen free after several years. Copper and tin oxide are insulators, and low energy signals cannot burn through them after a thick layer forms in a connection. IMHO 8 ohm speakers are high energy, with voltages up to 56 on my PV-1.3k, but I have my doubts about 2 ohm speakers remaining oxygen free and totally conductive at the connector surface. Neutrix anybody? 1/4 phone plugs are short hazards if anybody trips on one and pulled it out a little, but at least the wiper gives the plug surface a good scraping off of the oxide when they are plugged in. We certainly have a lot of trouble with low energy internal signals in old electronic organs, not making it across the connector to connector oxide until the connectors are removed and replaced to scrape them clean. Keys need a lot of actions to start conducting too, if the organ has sat idle for a while.
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