Oh the irony 😀
This is incorrect, they disbelieve in amplifiers having PRaT and soundstage. Disbelief is a negative belief. If there was merely an absence of belief either way (i.e. they were agnostic) they'd not be seeking to deny others hearing these things.
Just like I said, this is denial of what others hear.
<edit> Point of clarification - of course amps don't have PRaT and soundstage in the sense that's used by some of those at the objectivist end in order to mock the terms. Rather they're often interfering with (masking) those elements which are on the recording. So it can seem like an amp has better PRaT (or soundstage) - what this means is its more transparent to the source.
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I'm not asking anyone to deny anything.
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Classic deflection beloved of those who rely on denial. I said nothing about what you (and others at the objectivist end) were asking of others merely what you (collectively) do with the reports of what they hear.
I haven't seen any reports, only subjectivity and denial.
An actual report would be pretty awesome right now, like, a report of someone finally actually being able to hear a real difference when properly tested.
Noooo....I thought you meant report as in, "hey, check out these 4 paragraphs of hot air about this one time when I noticed an amplifier difference..."
Fas42, I had a similar experience just this week. I fired up my Marantz 10 tuner to my normal system, where I normally have used a quality Sony FM tuner. The change was outstanding!
It was 'revolutionary', so I am selling you guys on a more than 50 year old Marantz 10 FM tuner, where less than 100 were ever made. What a 'salesman' I can be!
It was 'revolutionary', so I am selling you guys on a more than 50 year old Marantz 10 FM tuner, where less than 100 were ever made. What a 'salesman' I can be!
Let me put it this way : I'm fully prepared to accept prat's existence. Are you prepared to accept its inexistence?
Oh, and don't shift the burden of proof on me : you are the one claiming it exists, you have to prove it.
Enviado de meu GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk
As has been already said, very much by the "objectivists" in this thread, PRaT is indeed part of music in itself, when you hear it live - the only "problem" is arguing whether the sense of that is altered when listening to playback of a recording, depending upon the competence of the system ...
Please stick to amplifiers, PRAT and soundstage, the items we are discussing here.
Tuners are very far from amplifiers:
1) they are not flat by any means.
2) they can have different front ends, so they match the antenna in different ways
3) their signal path includes a ton of cascaded tuned stages, with different bandwidth, Q , "skirts", selectivity, etc.
The design is a compromise, different designers choose different ones.
4) all of them have built in RF compressors, a.k.a AGC
5) the detection circuits have inherent distortion
etc. etc. etc.
So yes, I agree that different tuners have different sound .... in fact I expect that .... but what does that have to do with what we are discussing here?
Something easy to see in this thread is that the "techies" want to stick to the points suggested at the beginning and the "believers" systematically try to change the subject.
That alone is an indication of surrender, even if not acknowlweged. .
Not 'inexistence' no since that would require employing your technique (denial), but I'm fully prepared to accept that its entirely due to placebo.
You've not been listening have you? Since you're not listening I shall not explain, it would be a waste of time 🙂
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