A reverb unit would be one way to artificially increase soundstage.
For amps large amounts of crosstalk between left&right channels would also work.
For speakers you could go the Bose 901 route or add rear-firing tweeters.
But these are all artificial and hardly fall into the realm of High Fidelity.
For amps large amounts of crosstalk between left&right channels would also work.
For speakers you could go the Bose 901 route or add rear-firing tweeters.
But these are all artificial and hardly fall into the realm of High Fidelity.
That they're done with a measurement device that can't be marketed, tricked or lied to, like a human can be.
Also completeness. "Published specifications" are quite limited, partially because of FTC regulations, partially because of marketing considerations. For example, try finding a source impedance versus frequency in a commercial spec sheet- that's pretty rare. Or something like a PowerCube measurement to determine suitable load range.
Stereophile does a pretty good job with presenting a more complete set of measurements. No PowerCube or the equivalent, no distortion spectra except at one frequency, but most of the rest is there.
Charles Darwin
Adding those effects artificially will probably effect the other postulates negatively and that is the point of including all three of mine in the subjective assessment. We don't know that the amp with the better soundstage is necessarily inferior at resolving but we can determine easily if we prefer the sound it produces. Again, it is all about balance and compromise.
Adding those effects artificially will probably effect the other postulates negatively and that is the point of including all three of mine in the subjective assessment. We don't know that the amp with the better soundstage is necessarily inferior at resolving but we can determine easily if we prefer the sound it produces. Again, it is all about balance and compromise.
Charles Darwin
Adding those effects artificially will probably effect the other postulates negatively and that is the point of including all three of mine in the subjective assessment. We don't know that the amp with the better soundstage is necessarily inferior at resolving but we can determine easily if we prefer the sound it produces. Again, it is all about balance and compromise.
You still failed to explain what PRaT means so far.
It clearly can not mean Pace, Rhythm and Timing in their traditional sense since no replay system I've ever heard influences them at all.
Charles Darwin
I addressed my understanding of PRaT in the audio reproduction context on page 38 of this thread and yes, its meaning did not change. Pace, Rhythm and Timing.
I addressed my understanding of PRaT in the audio reproduction context on page 38 of this thread and yes, its meaning did not change. Pace, Rhythm and Timing.
We don't know that the amp with the better soundstage is necessarily inferior at resolving but we can determine easily if we prefer the sound it produces. Again, it is all about balance and compromise.
You still haven't established that those marketing terms have any meaning as regards amplifier performance. Get there first and the discussion can become useful.
Ok, so you can't tell amplifiers apart, unless you can, and you get to define which amplifiers.
I get it. We're in a Monty Python sketch. I'm outa here.
Not really, we're just trying to stop people from using weird extreme theoretical problems that only exist in bizarre circumstances as examples to prove absolutes.
A suggested sign of madness is the repeating of an action with the expectation (or hope) of different results.
After 55 pages the OP is still repeating the same baseless claims, refusing to engage in any real dialog and has not demonstrated any technical competence whatsoever. 'good at
smiley's 'though!
When do we give up prodding the wreckage?
After 55 pages the OP is still repeating the same baseless claims, refusing to engage in any real dialog and has not demonstrated any technical competence whatsoever. 'good at

When do we give up prodding the wreckage?
This sounds like a plea for mediocrity to me and a subsequent muting of the potential for excellence. Link for amusement.Not really, we're just trying to stop people from using weird extreme theoretical problems that only exist in bizarre circumstances as examples to prove absolutes.
I agree ... just let this strange conversation die a natural death ...Ok, so you can't tell amplifiers apart, unless you can, and you get to define which amplifiers.
I get it. We're in a Monty Python sketch. I'm outa here.
Charles Darwin
I addressed my understanding of PRaT in the audio reproduction context on page 38 of this thread and yes, its meaning did not change. Pace, Rhythm and Timing.
These are things musicians talk about, audiophiles have no business talking about them, as if their amplifiers have little bands inside them rather than high speed, audio signal agnostic transistors.
I'm quite passionate about this issue, especially amplifiers, because due to all this audiophile nonsense and all the marketing and goofspeak, too many manufacturers are playing toward people on your side of the fence, adding silly crap like unobtanium screws and special audio paints, that I've gotta go to a Hungarian company to find an amplifier with a decent set of actual usable features.
This sounds like a plea for mediocrity to me and a subsequent muting of the potential for excellence. Link for amusement.
No, it's a plea for superiority in areas where it actually matters and silence in areas that are proven to be irrelevant, damaging or downright stupid.
why would I spend 10 grand on an amplifier, when all someone has to do is put a sheet up in front of it and I can't tell it apart from a sam's club AV receiver?"
There might be a lot of reasons for that. Build quality is one. Pride of ownership could be another. Clever engineering might be a reason as well. I would choose a JC amp over another, for example, because I like the way his circuits are put together.
Finally, for 10K you can buy an amp that plays louder without clipping than a simple AV receiver.
p.s. what is sam's club?
.
why would I spend 10 grand on an amplifier, when all someone has to do is put a sheet up in front of it and I can't tell it apart from a sam's club AV receiver?"
For the same reasons people buy Rolex watches. You can't tell time with then better than with a $10 watch (or the free watch on your cell phone), but that fact doesn't stop people from buying Rolex, nor are they stupid for spending that kind of money on a watch.
Enviado de meu GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk
For the same reasons people buy Rolex watches. You can't tell time with then better than with a $10 watch (or the free watch on your cell phone), but that fact doesn't stop people from buying Rolex, nor are they stupid for spending that kind of money on a watch.
Enviado de meu GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk
This just reminds me of when I was a teenager. My friend and I started using the term "audiophile" to mean anything that was excessive, so 40oz drinks and triple cheeseburgers became the "audiophile" size.
Or, in other words, not for performance but for touchy-feeley reasons. How's that for perverse?For the same reasons people buy Rolex watches. You can't tell time with then better than with a $10 watch (or the free watch on your cell phone), but that fact doesn't stop people from buying Rolex, nor are they stupid for spending that kind of money on a watch.

Or, in other words, not for performance but for touchy-feeley reasons. How's that for perverse?
![]()
I've got a link to a great comedy post about this type of stuff, but it's very NSFW, so I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link it here.
Or, in other words, not for performance but for touchy-feeley reasons. How's that for perverse?
![]()
That's progress even the cheapest cell phone has access to the GPS time, Rolex notwithstanding.
Soundstage is something defined at the Recording Studio, by the Recording Engineer (sorry for using the E word 😛 ) and it gets embedded in the recording.The narrow set of audible parameters in SY's post do not include soundstage (imaging) so what of it? Does everyone agree each amp that is fine produces an identical one or that it is not an audible characteristic?
You can mess with it by gross crosstalk, the epitome being listening in Mono 😉 or by placing the speakers so close together as to get the same effect. 😀
But you are not suggesting such flawed test, are you? (Well, maybe you are if it helps your position 😉 )
What I state and you can quote me on this, is that if you set up a proper listening environment, with correctly spaced speakers , you have some suitable audio source (vinyl/digital/tape/ even better the output from a remotely placed mixer picking live sound through microphones somewhere else) and all you do is switch any modern good amplifier in the signal path, obviously played clean, soundstage will not change one iota.
So soundstage is not a property of the amplifier.
So SY does not include it in his list for the excellent reason that it´s useless and irrelevant to compare amplifiers
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
- Home
- Member Areas
- The Lounge
- Voicing an amplifier: general discussion