Voicing an amplifier: general discussion

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A reverb unit would be one way to artificially increase soundstage.
For amps large amounts of crosstalk between left&right channels would also work.

For speakers you could go the Bose 901 route or add rear-firing tweeters.

But these are all artificial and hardly fall into the realm of High Fidelity.
 
That they're done with a measurement device that can't be marketed, tricked or lied to, like a human can be.

Also completeness. "Published specifications" are quite limited, partially because of FTC regulations, partially because of marketing considerations. For example, try finding a source impedance versus frequency in a commercial spec sheet- that's pretty rare. Or something like a PowerCube measurement to determine suitable load range.

Stereophile does a pretty good job with presenting a more complete set of measurements. No PowerCube or the equivalent, no distortion spectra except at one frequency, but most of the rest is there.
 
Charles Darwin
Adding those effects artificially will probably effect the other postulates negatively and that is the point of including all three of mine in the subjective assessment. We don't know that the amp with the better soundstage is necessarily inferior at resolving but we can determine easily if we prefer the sound it produces. Again, it is all about balance and compromise.
 
Charles Darwin
Adding those effects artificially will probably effect the other postulates negatively and that is the point of including all three of mine in the subjective assessment. We don't know that the amp with the better soundstage is necessarily inferior at resolving but we can determine easily if we prefer the sound it produces. Again, it is all about balance and compromise.

You still failed to explain what PRaT means so far.
It clearly can not mean Pace, Rhythm and Timing in their traditional sense since no replay system I've ever heard influences them at all.
 
A suggested sign of madness is the repeating of an action with the expectation (or hope) of different results.

After 55 pages the OP is still repeating the same baseless claims, refusing to engage in any real dialog and has not demonstrated any technical competence whatsoever. 'good at :whazzat: smiley's 'though!

When do we give up prodding the wreckage?
 
Charles Darwin
I addressed my understanding of PRaT in the audio reproduction context on page 38 of this thread and yes, its meaning did not change. Pace, Rhythm and Timing.

These are things musicians talk about, audiophiles have no business talking about them, as if their amplifiers have little bands inside them rather than high speed, audio signal agnostic transistors.

I'm quite passionate about this issue, especially amplifiers, because due to all this audiophile nonsense and all the marketing and goofspeak, too many manufacturers are playing toward people on your side of the fence, adding silly crap like unobtanium screws and special audio paints, that I've gotta go to a Hungarian company to find an amplifier with a decent set of actual usable features.
 
why would I spend 10 grand on an amplifier, when all someone has to do is put a sheet up in front of it and I can't tell it apart from a sam's club AV receiver?"

There might be a lot of reasons for that. Build quality is one. Pride of ownership could be another. Clever engineering might be a reason as well. I would choose a JC amp over another, for example, because I like the way his circuits are put together.

Finally, for 10K you can buy an amp that plays louder without clipping than a simple AV receiver.

p.s. what is sam's club?
 
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why would I spend 10 grand on an amplifier, when all someone has to do is put a sheet up in front of it and I can't tell it apart from a sam's club AV receiver?"

For the same reasons people buy Rolex watches. You can't tell time with then better than with a $10 watch (or the free watch on your cell phone), but that fact doesn't stop people from buying Rolex, nor are they stupid for spending that kind of money on a watch.


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For the same reasons people buy Rolex watches. You can't tell time with then better than with a $10 watch (or the free watch on your cell phone), but that fact doesn't stop people from buying Rolex, nor are they stupid for spending that kind of money on a watch.


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This just reminds me of when I was a teenager. My friend and I started using the term "audiophile" to mean anything that was excessive, so 40oz drinks and triple cheeseburgers became the "audiophile" size.
 
The narrow set of audible parameters in SY's post do not include soundstage (imaging) so what of it? Does everyone agree each amp that is fine produces an identical one or that it is not an audible characteristic?
Soundstage is something defined at the Recording Studio, by the Recording Engineer (sorry for using the E word 😛 ) and it gets embedded in the recording.

You can mess with it by gross crosstalk, the epitome being listening in Mono 😉 or by placing the speakers so close together as to get the same effect. 😀

But you are not suggesting such flawed test, are you? (Well, maybe you are if it helps your position 😉 )

What I state and you can quote me on this, is that if you set up a proper listening environment, with correctly spaced speakers , you have some suitable audio source (vinyl/digital/tape/ even better the output from a remotely placed mixer picking live sound through microphones somewhere else) and all you do is switch any modern good amplifier in the signal path, obviously played clean, soundstage will not change one iota.

So soundstage is not a property of the amplifier.

So SY does not include it in his list for the excellent reason that it´s useless and irrelevant to compare amplifiers
 
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