Cool. What compression drivers will you be using ?
I'm looking forward to see some measurements when you make them.
cheers
I'm looking forward to see some measurements when you make them.
cheers
3"\1.4" noname $100 ferrite Ti with polimer surround.
in 2380 clone putted (right word??)) to 1.4":
in 2380 clone putted (right word??)) to 1.4":
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Im on the process to build 2way with AE TD15M and FaitalPro HF106 with E JMLC, this thread is very interesting and i will compare them to my existing 3way with satori and raal.
Hopefully with multiple subs also to see what is all about 🙂
Hopefully with multiple subs also to see what is all about 🙂
This looks quite good 🙂
AE TD15M is a great loudspeaker and i'm pretty confident that it will live up to your expectations. Where do you intend to make xover point ? Dumptruck used the same midbass with DE250 and QSC 152i waveguide and he reported good results with xover point at arround 1KHz.
Do you have any link to your Satori/RAAL project ?
I'd like to see measurements (such as http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...-compression-drivers-music-6.html#post1390663 ) and to read listening impressions of 18sound 4"\1.4" drivers and Radian 1.4" Be..
and BMS coax seems conventional for 24)).
and BMS coax seems conventional for 24)).
I envy you, i didn't hear it and it sounds promising to me 🙂
If you can find some high sensitivity mid 6"-10" midrange, try it with TD15M and FaitalPro xovered at arround 400 between bass and mid and at what ever works the best between mid and high. I would really love to hear your sound impresions with Low Mms and low Le woofer such is AE TD15M.
theoretically I can try 1000 years old 8" fostex ~9+g, ~9+T/m 94-95 dB\W somewhere between W and T..
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I do have ae td10m, but thats for another project with seas t35 and jantzen waveguide 🙂
All i can say with the qsc waveguide that it was not hi resolution enough for me to consider it as my main speakers, on the other hand, the td15m was promising that i bought another horns and compression driver to mate it with 🙂
If your xover will be at 500Hz as i think you wrote somewhere, then you dont need to do that. I prefer compression driver as a midrange more than direct radiator.
Make some experiments with drivers that you have by making plywood test cabinets for a bad mf three way 🙂 . Don't be shy, i know i wouldn't be 🙂
EDIT: Though AE TD10M has Mms = 45gr that is a little on the highish side to be able to perform as a dedicated midrange (as is TD6M with Mms=9gr and Le=0.15mH) but i think it should work fine.
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I used to vehemently disagree with that position. Now I'm not so sure.
A comparison I've been meaning to make for a while is whether more efficient speakers, given ample power and ample volume displacement for both setups, do have better perceived dynamics. The parts I have on hand for the comparison are on the efficient side a 12" Tannoy Dual Concentric (~96dB/W/m) and on the inefficient side a 5" TAD/Pioneer concentric flanked by two 7" woofers (~87dB/W/m). Both monopoles. Both powered by an amp capable of >200W continuous output and considerably higher peak (ATI AT2007).
Obviously, they'll sound different if the direct field is equalized the same, because the big Tannoy has narrower directivity. But then again, if that pattern difference subjectively equates to greater perceived dynamics, then I don't see how that matters because the universe of big (>10") midranges and tweeters that fit on big waveguides is almost exclusively high efficiency anyway.
That experiment also won't say anything about the typical (badly-designed) hifi speaker, which puts the tweeter on a 180WG, because there is considerable gain at the bottom of the tweeter's passband from the TAD/Pioneer concentric midrange's cone.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(Note: axial notch up top due to surface mounting a driver with a very thick flange. Absolute SPL not calibrated.)
Only outdoors or in an anechoic chamber.
There are lots of "calculators" using those numbers (often on the websites of amp makers) but they don't account for reflections so don't really apply in small rooms.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a modern AVR or pre-pro will calibrate the system to a level at which 0dBFS is 105dB in the mains and 115dB in the LFE, and that point is indicated by some position on the volume control (often "0dB" but presumably not always). So that's a hard ceiling to output levels on any system, assuming it's capable of reaching those levels in the first place.
Earl, IIRC when you mentioned at some point that when you started experimenting with OS waveguides you used a "hifi" flat disk tweeter that's currently not in production. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Did you take any measurements that either were directly on point about instantaneous heating and dynamics, or could reasonably lead to inferences about instantaneous heating and dynamics?
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It was a flat honeycomb flat disk, but that was way back in 1990. I did not get interested in the thermal stuff until about 2005 so I never even looked at thermal issues.
I used to consider "dynamics" just an audiophile term with no meaning because I could not see any theory that would support it. Now I can see how this is a factor and how it is generated and controlled. Still no hard proof that there is a correlation between Thermal Modulation and audibility, just a hypothesis with strong scientific support.
Ok so with all of the points discussed here, I'm going to move ahead with a design plan. I've made it clear I'm a big fan of ribbon tweeters when used correctly so the Fountek Neo3CD will be used in an D'Appolito arrangement with two Scansspeak 10F4 ohms in series. Woofers will be Eminence Deltalight 12's top and bottom Dipole. Baffle will be wide at 17" and U frame for dipole. MTM section will be sealed. I'm going to have to create my own waveguide to support directivity of the two mid ranges down to near Earls suggested range of 800hz. This will be tough but I think direct radiators will be more forgiving of response anomolies in a shallow guide as opposed to CDs in a narrow throat deep guide. Genelec seems to have good success with their combo guides for installed monitors. I've never worked with plastics and heat as Dave Pellegrine has done but I have worked with heavy polyester cloth and resin so we'll see which method works better. After hearing the SS 10f in a test box playing Fullrange with a 250hz high pass, subjectively this is the absolute best midrange I've yet to experience in my room which is only 14x20 ft. ULF will be brought in at 40hz with the same Dayton 18" subwoofer in use now. The two 12" sealed Dayton's will be repurposed elsewhere.
Easy test: double-blind ABX with two identical (active) speakers. Each one gets its own channels of amplification.
1) Place the speakers side by side so that the baffles are flush with each other. 2) Add mass to the woofer(s) of the non-control speaker.
3) Measure the loss in sensitivity and adjust the EQ and/or gain appropriately until both have identical sensitivity.
4) ???
5) Profit! (South Park joke. Sorry, had to)
Of course, there is a practical limit to this, as once you start sending too much power, power compression and other effects may begin to swamp any other subtleties.
IF the user allows the AVR to do it . . . (but I do believe that's what my old Yamaha did). On the other hand THX (the original theater spec, anyway) called for a capability of 105dB at 20 Hz at the seat, with the obvious expectation that capability would be at least occasionally used. 105 in the mains, however, is ridiculously loud (I believe it was John Eargle who noted that in all his years recording symphony orchestras he had never seen over 105dB at the microphone, although that clearly did not include close mic'd trumpet or trombones). Of course we used to go a lot higher in "rock and roll", but many of us are enjoying accelerated hearing loss in our old age because of it. There are laws now . . . (although probably no more "common sense"). And as you have noted, the presence of reflected sound can result in a higher SPL at the listening position than the 1 meter rating of a single speaker in a stereo or 5.1 installation.
In any case I'm very much with Dick Olsher and Nelson Pass in the observation that the quality of a reproduction system is determined in the 1st Watt, not the 500th, and by my own that the "dynamics" of the reproduction chain are determined almost entirely at the console (or nowadays the DAW). One of the more frequent comments I used to hear about my ORION (when playing unedited 24 bit recordings) was the accuracy of the "dynamics" . . . and that without an "efficient" driver in sight. Granted, though, that they could not do the "blat" of trombones at twenty paces or saxophone-in-the-subway (both better not brought home in any case).
Di Pole ?
Greetings!
I'm curious as to why you would choose a di-pole mid-bass section, when your mid-range and subwoofer are mono-pole?
Greetings!
I'm curious as to why you would choose a di-pole mid-bass section, when your mid-range and subwoofer are mono-pole?
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