Where did I get the idea that reversing the speaker polarity on a tripath based amp would fry the PCB? Also, I recently read on PE site that use of a preamp with their 2050 based board would cook it as well. I have been using a Dynaco
PAS2 for months now, with no magic smoke. What gives? Thanks any and all.
Jason
PAS2 for months now, with no magic smoke. What gives? Thanks any and all.
Jason
speaker polarity?
nope.
that would only change the phase of a speaker.
why would a proper pre-amp fry it ?
i see no reason behind the 2 statements.
nope.
that would only change the phase of a speaker.
why would a proper pre-amp fry it ?
i see no reason behind the 2 statements.
Tripath
Seemed strange to me but as I recall the instructions were vere insistent that red go to red, black to back etc. As for the preamp the information at parts express stated that a preamp would show a higher voltage input to the amp than say a source would. As these amps have potentiometers in most cases a Pre would be considered redundant. This is my guess.
Seemed strange to me but as I recall the instructions were vere insistent that red go to red, black to back etc. As for the preamp the information at parts express stated that a preamp would show a higher voltage input to the amp than say a source would. As these amps have potentiometers in most cases a Pre would be considered redundant. This is my guess.
This theory sounds interesting but I do not think that it stands in court of law. 🙂
A more earthy explanation is that when adding speakers to a system, what we are trying to succeed is the highest possible stereophonic effect.
The timing in which a signal arrives to a speaker cone is critical for the highest possible stereophony, by assuming that some one has the same length of cables in both speakers, the correct polarity acts as warranty that speakers are identically set too.
Polarity markers over equipment they do serve just this purpose.
Non polar capacitors in crossovers serving this purpose too, and they are used so to not be any damage to them due accidental polarity reverse connection.
In summary polarity reverse it can influence performance only when one speaker of the two is not connected accordingly to the other.
From the other hand, speaker’s inner resistance does not change due polarity reverse, therefore the amplifier is safe.
speakers.. look, if you reverse the "polarity" of a speaker in a stereo system, you just make a 180 degree phase shift.
bass will cancel out.
nogo.
in 3 way systems midrange with 2nd order xover is connected mostly in reverse "polarity".
the amp does not care.
still the same load, so whatever.
as for the pre-amp killing the ampű?
nope. its the higher than rated input voltage, that is killing it.
that killZ the amp.
not the fact that a pre-amp is connected to it.
bass will cancel out.
nogo.
in 3 way systems midrange with 2nd order xover is connected mostly in reverse "polarity".
the amp does not care.
still the same load, so whatever.
as for the pre-amp killing the ampű?
nope. its the higher than rated input voltage, that is killing it.
that killZ the amp.
not the fact that a pre-amp is connected to it.
Imagine the speaker as to be coil in a magnet floating on air which expects a force to move it.
When the force arrives, this cone will move forward pushing air.
Cancellation (terminology) it can happen when there is a reverse force coming from somewhere, which is also equal with the one that is all ready there.
then imagine the cone moving air to produce waves, that your ears will detect.
and imagine a nother cone nearby, producing waves 180 degree phase shifted.
yess, it cancels out most part by the time it reaches your ear.
try your self, you got 2 speakers.
reverse the "polarity" of 1 speaker .
listen to some bass heavy music.
then reverse the other speaker too, and listen to it.
does not mather if the speakers are connected in "reverse" as long as they are connected in phase.
so reversing the phase of a speaker will absolute not fry any amp at all.
and imagine a nother cone nearby, producing waves 180 degree phase shifted.
yess, it cancels out most part by the time it reaches your ear.
try your self, you got 2 speakers.
reverse the "polarity" of 1 speaker .
listen to some bass heavy music.
then reverse the other speaker too, and listen to it.
does not mather if the speakers are connected in "reverse" as long as they are connected in phase.
so reversing the phase of a speaker will absolute not fry any amp at all.
I have a general understanding of the mechanics of phase cancellation. In fact, that is why I want to invert the phase btwn the tweeters and Mids or the mids and the lf drivers, in my 3 way triamped open baffles. The poorly worded translation in the smsl instruction "manual" suggests that any deviation from the diagramed wiring, red to red, black to black would damage the amp. They may have meant that one would not want to hook up two reds to one speaker and two blacks to the other. This would seem obvious but may be the source of my confusion. If anyone has the smsl 2024 amp from eBay they may recall this admonishment.
If some one can offer solid proofs that a speaker coils is capable to offer an 180 degrees phase shift? I will keep following this conversation.
180 degrees phase shift, forced just by a coil formation, is not possible even in three phase motors.
180 degrees phase shift, forced just by a coil formation, is not possible even in three phase motors.
If two speakers are equal distance from the listening position, play the same signal, except one speaker is 180 degrees out of phase with the other, the two signals will cancel.
In reality, the distance will never be exactly the same and typical program material won't contain the same material in both channels, hence, you won't get perfect cancellation. Instead, you get a significant dip in the frequency response. In some cases, this is used creatively - such as the voices in my head on Pink Floyd's "Brain Damage" from "Dark Side of the Moon".
If both speakers have their wires reversed, i.e. both are 180 degrees out of phase with the power amp input, no dips in the frequency response occur. This is because the signals from each speaker add rather than cancel at the listening position. This is the same situation as when both speakers are 0 degrees out of phase (i.e. in phase).
However, if the whole signal chain (from musician to speaker) has no phase change in the audio band, some people will experience the situation with both speakers 180 degrees out of phase as sounding worse than 0 degrees out of phase (aka in phase). This is because the transient response is inverted. What should have produced a movement of the speaker cone towards the listener produces a movement away from the listener.
i hope this makes sense. If you want proof of how phase cancellation works, I suggest looking at constructive and destructive interference in a high school physics text.
~Tom
In reality, the distance will never be exactly the same and typical program material won't contain the same material in both channels, hence, you won't get perfect cancellation. Instead, you get a significant dip in the frequency response. In some cases, this is used creatively - such as the voices in my head on Pink Floyd's "Brain Damage" from "Dark Side of the Moon".
If both speakers have their wires reversed, i.e. both are 180 degrees out of phase with the power amp input, no dips in the frequency response occur. This is because the signals from each speaker add rather than cancel at the listening position. This is the same situation as when both speakers are 0 degrees out of phase (i.e. in phase).
However, if the whole signal chain (from musician to speaker) has no phase change in the audio band, some people will experience the situation with both speakers 180 degrees out of phase as sounding worse than 0 degrees out of phase (aka in phase). This is because the transient response is inverted. What should have produced a movement of the speaker cone towards the listener produces a movement away from the listener.
i hope this makes sense. If you want proof of how phase cancellation works, I suggest looking at constructive and destructive interference in a high school physics text.
~Tom
Just as confirmation, I understood all that.
Too many on this Forum seemed to have been asleep or played truant in much of their school years.
In the village called as WWW, this reaction called as trolling.
But I will by pass this and I will say that as long your ears are in the opposite direction in your head, you do have nothing to fear about sound cancellation.
And in order to make you happy I will say that in a stadium with speakers all around, the sound waves are crashing in the air and they cancel its other, so no matter the volume, the people can not listen them. 😀
back on topic,
anyone care to at least try to come up with something even remotely validating that reversing the speaker wires can in any way blow up an amplifier ?
anyone care to at least try to come up with something even remotely validating that reversing the speaker wires can in any way blow up an amplifier ?
a) Reverse polarity is not destructive.
b) All professional grade amplifiers above 100W come with built in protection against sorted cables or speakers, if the circuit meet basic criteria the amplifier is turning on.
c) All professional grade speakers above 100W they have build in protection with PPTC fuse so overloads to not stress the active speakers.
In summary if your equipment are DIY and do not include any sort of protection, you better not use them in experimental mode.
b) All professional grade amplifiers above 100W come with built in protection against sorted cables or speakers, if the circuit meet basic criteria the amplifier is turning on.
c) All professional grade speakers above 100W they have build in protection with PPTC fuse so overloads to not stress the active speakers.
In summary if your equipment are DIY and do not include any sort of protection, you better not use them in experimental mode.
Hi,
Its probably to do with you can't bridge bridged,
you can't common black, that will blow it up.
You can't parallel red and black either without
first adding some current sharing resistors.
You can reverse the connections to the speakers.
rgds, sreten.
Its probably to do with you can't bridge bridged,
you can't common black, that will blow it up.
You can't parallel red and black either without
first adding some current sharing resistors.
You can reverse the connections to the speakers.
rgds, sreten.
Last edited:
Arty, If I may,
If this is actually the question you are asking then rest assured, this cannot be a problem. The information you are receiving is from those with a lack of understanding.
If there is something missing from the question, then perhaps there is more to discuss.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.