Hello All,
Please, I don't want to start a big deal on the merits of burning in a cap. So please, If you think it's stupid, I appreciate your opinion, but please don't comment here. Thank you.
Now, how can I burn in caps without installing them in my equipment? I was told to just put a 1Kz square wave through it from a signal generator, for however long, and that would do it. But don't I need something the sweeps, or give me the entire audio spectrum? Is there a post somewhere that has a DIY cap burner? Thank you all so very much for any help you could give me.
If you really want to do this, may I suggest your getting an 8 ohm dummy load and hook it up to your amp like you would a speaker. Now, patch in your cap in series to be burned in and play a pink noise track on a CD player (set on repeat mode) hooked up to the amp. Adjust the volume level to between 4 and 8 volts across the 8 ohm load.
You may be surprised to hear the cap 'sing'. It happens with some caps running at a decent voltage level.
I am amazed at the attitudes of this thread. Have any of you ever used a Russian teflon capacitor in the signal path? If not i suggest you do, it might just change your opinion on capacitor break in.
Why is it only audio where components need to be broken in to work correctly, just out of interest.
And please don't come back with burn in testing it is not the same....
I don't know, maybe it isn't. All i know is i have heard audible differences in the signal path, but i couldn't tell the difference if it was a power supply capacitor.
I don't understand what you mean by that?
Burn in testing is where assemblies are tested under certain conditions to check for early component failure (the test usually encompasses extremes of temperature and temperature cycling etc) by stressing the assembly. This is mainly done for critical electronics such as aerospace these days though consumer products in some cases will be batch tested (ie one out of every 1000+). This is probably where the belief of component (and wire) breakin has originated.
It seems obvious to me: the combination of the human ear and typical loudspeakers in a typical lounge are much more sensitive to details of distortion or phase and frequency response than any military weapons system or medical diagnostic equipment or scientific instrumentation or satellite communications system. That is why all the best capacitor companies employ an audiophile listening to 'Brothers in Arms' as part of their production batch testing.marce said:
Does this website serve as a proof that capacitor break in is a real phenomenon:
SoZo Capacitors
After all, those scope captures are taken from a relevant thread that appeared on this forum:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/81355-capacitor-burn-break.html
....Though not many agreed that they actually portray break in. 🙄
Not to mention, the actual manufacturer of those capacitors (Cornell-Dubilier) doesn't bother to address any such issue in their technical literature about capacitors.
And people still wonder why many of us fail to take this topic seriously.
SoZo Capacitors
After all, those scope captures are taken from a relevant thread that appeared on this forum:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/81355-capacitor-burn-break.html
....Though not many agreed that they actually portray break in. 🙄
Not to mention, the actual manufacturer of those capacitors (Cornell-Dubilier) doesn't bother to address any such issue in their technical literature about capacitors.
And people still wonder why many of us fail to take this topic seriously.
Exactly. Here's a picture of an audiphile listening a missile guidance system.
In case you wonder what's up with those binocular thingies the answer is obvious: If the audiophile can't see what he is listening then how can he tell for sure what he is actually hearing. 😀
Don't you find it strange that someone started a thread in your second link and the scope pics are identical to those on ZoZo's site? I suspect someone from ZoZo created that thread to generate interest in their products.
I'm skeptical for the scope pics as well. There's no mention of the test methodology being used nor exactly what the scope is portraying. Yes, one link has bumps and the second pics shows the line smoothed. What does it mean in technical terms? There's no explanation.
I smell snake oil.
I doubt the first- Tom is usually upfront about his commercial interests and I don't see his name anywhere on their site. More likely, they swiped his pictures without attribution. The scope shots of course don't show what Tom claimed they did, but that's part of the learning process.
The second is without question.
Some capacitors do seem to change as they are used at first.
An easy way to experience this is to try replacing a feedback capacitor or an input capacitor with an equivalent elna silmic capacitor and listen to what happens over the first few hours of use.
I have been using elne silmic capacitors for 20 years, initially elna silmic and now elna silmic II, as I think they are the best electrolytic capacitors around. The sound has always changed over the first few hours of use. They are bass heavy at first but over a few hours of use that goes away and more detail appears in the music. The old Phillips electrolytics were just the same.
If you want to pre use them in I would run an FM signal through them for a few hours, however I would guess that you would need to run them at near to the voltage they will eventual be operating at.
Don
An easy way to experience this is to try replacing a feedback capacitor or an input capacitor with an equivalent elna silmic capacitor and listen to what happens over the first few hours of use.
I have been using elne silmic capacitors for 20 years, initially elna silmic and now elna silmic II, as I think they are the best electrolytic capacitors around. The sound has always changed over the first few hours of use. They are bass heavy at first but over a few hours of use that goes away and more detail appears in the music. The old Phillips electrolytics were just the same.
If you want to pre use them in I would run an FM signal through them for a few hours, however I would guess that you would need to run them at near to the voltage they will eventual be operating at.
Don
aaaaaaand, stop.
Here's what happens - your hearing adjusts to any change (assuming there is one).
Since there probably isn't one (assuming like-for-like and within tolerance components), the second and more plausible reason is psychological. Your brain says "I changed something ergo there WILL be a different sound" It then steps along a little further and says "I expect to like the change and therefore I will".
Sans independent and verifiable data, all the rest is audio-babble.
Electrolytics might change slightly during the first few hours of use, as the oxide layer adjusts to the applied DC voltage. Leakage current will reduce and the capacitance value will stabilise. Absolutely no need for 'burn-in' though, as these effects require that the capacitor be used in exactly the same circuit conditions as it will be in the real circuit. The best way to do this is to use it in the real circuit. Strangely, this is exactly what most people do - unless they believe in 'burn-in'.
I was told in private conversatons with Mundorf Engineers that they offer burn in service on their caps to customers.
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