About Crossfeed concept

[ginetto61]

Hi,
for some practical reasons (listening at night) i am rediscovering headphones
After some minutes i get some kind of listening fatigue that i have linked to the fact the sound is inside my head, a very stressing condition
Because unnatural ... very unnatural
So more than every other aspect i think that this fact alone makes the headphone listening unbereable.
I am here to try to get information about the best crossfeed solutions you have ever experienced , able to get the sound out of the head
I have to listen to headphones for hours for my job
Now after just half an hour i am exausted ... really really nervous
Completely unacceptable and i wonder why headphones are so popular
Thanks a lot in advance to anyone
Kind regards, gino

P.S. i think that the final solution the really good one will be digital
I do not know why but this is my feeling

 

[sgrossklass]

The best for my tastes that I've found is the Meier crossfeed software implementation in Rockbox - just enough to do away with the most extreme one-ear-only sounds while not coloring or veiling the presentation otherwise. I have a hunch that you might need some more.
The real deal (hardware I mean) has been described as less subtle, though that would be a matter of resistor values. Check Headwize for the old articles by Jan Meier himself. He put his xfeed in the gain stage but there is no reason why one couldn't adapt the whole shebang to line level.

Oh, what kind of cans are you using anyway? Some are distorting the stereo perspective even more heavily than normal. And what kind of music do you listen to? '60s ping-pong stereo recordings can be quite critical, while '80s stuff drenched in reverb tends to be quite headphone-friendly.

 

[ginetto61]

Hi and thanks for the helpful reply
I have different not very expensive HPs: akg 242, Beyer 990dt, an old Akg 280
I know the site you mention and i will have a look there
But I wonder how a listening experience could be really satisfying when the soundstage is not realistic at all.
Different is the case of binaural recordings that i love
But with normal captured stereo recordings HPs are fatiguing because not natural
A real pity because they are very handy and i listen a lot in the evening
Thanks and regards, gino

 

[jameshillj]

There are a couple of other filter arrangements that offer a different ratio of cross feed but the basic arrangement is similar - as mentioned above, Jan's Xfeed cct with the ability to alter the bass (Xfeed with bass enhancement) is possibly 'the best' to get started into this area

The headphone amp itself is actually quite critical and with such a variety of headphones as you mentioned, possibly a good valve headamp would be worth having a listen, if you haven't done that already - I built the Cavalli Bijou a while back that has variable feedback that's quite useful as I too have a few different types of headphones and this particular feature is very handy indeed and initially I used the passive filters on the headamp output before the 'phones but quickly got used to the sound and haven't completed a proper set of filters - I intended to include some tone controls also but got a bit lazy here (a regular occurance!)

 

[thoglette]

I have to listen to headphones for hours for my job
Now after just half an hour i am exhausted ... really really nervous

I'm still very fond of my late '90s early model HeadRoom "airhead" which, while analog, combines delay and filtering. Cheap and satisfying

I have a notional Meier in Foobar 2000 but was not able (probably through user error) to get any joy from it.

Just received my "Geek Out" which has a cross feed - will be interesting to see how it compares (and whether the Airhead will get retired).

 

[Zero D]

I doubt if a valve headamp would be the thing for work !

@ ginetto61

I did make one years ago, but can't remember the circuit. It was definately interesting, but if you are not careful you can over do it. Experimenting will be fun for you, but it all depends on the tracks you play, Some will be better than others.

Also, you might consider lowering the volume, even now, as this can be a cause of discomfort.

 

[ginetto61]

I'm still very fond of my late '90s early model HeadRoom "airhead" which, while analog, combines delay and filtering.
Cheap and satisfying
I have a notional Meier in Foobar 2000 but was not able (probably through user error) to get any joy from it.
Just received my "Geek Out" which has a cross feed - will be interesting to see how it compares (and whether the Airhead will get retired).

Hi and yes i remember that one.
My main point is that i wonder how many people are so entusiastic for a device that i find after some minutes almost unbearable.
I have never been able to relax listening to headphone.
To be honest also to digital, but this is another story.
Unfortunately i think that the cure will be digital ... is down to delaying and mixing L and R signals in the right amount.
Thanks and regards, gino

 

[ginetto61]

I doubt if a valve headamp would be the thing for work !
@ ginetto61
I did make one years ago, but can't remember the circuit. It was definately interesting, but if you are not careful you can over do it.
Experimenting will be fun for you, but it all depends on the tracks you play, Some will be better than others.
Also, you might consider lowering the volume, even now, as this can be a cause of discomfort.

Thanks a lot for the valuable adivice.
I was wondering if some improvements can be gained with an original placement of mics during the recording, a not usual placement i mean
One day i have to try
If i find the way i could record the sound in the room from the stereo to listen in headphone.
It is clear that a recording good with speakers will be unsatisfying with HPs.
This is clear and unfortunate.
Kind regards, gino

 

[thoglette]

I have never been able to relax listening to headphone.

Probably the quickest way to find out if you can listen is to get a Head Related Transfer Function (HRTF) plugin for your favourite PC music player.

There's quite a few different algorithms out there but an hour (or less) of listening with each will tell you all you need to know.

Maybe headphones aren't for you - in which case ultra near field monitors (either side the keyboard, at screen height) might be the go

... down to delaying and mixing L and R signals in the right amount.

The Airhead (and siblings) does just that - since the late nineties. I presume in analog (bucket bridgade delay and all that) as the digital tech back then was pretty rough.

 

[ginetto61]

Probably the quickest way to find out if you can listen is to get a Head Related Transfer Function (HRTF) plugin for your favourite PC music player.
There's quite a few different algorithms out there but an hour (or less) of listening with each will tell you all you need to know.
Maybe headphones aren't for you - in which case ultra near field monitors (either side the keyboard, at screen height) might be the go

Hi and thanks again for the very helpful advice
I have the feeling that listening is a very intimate experience, and in this sense the HPs are just the way to go.
I love to listen in the dark at night not disturbing anyone in the home.
I am sure near field monitors could give a much more realistic sensation, but the diffuse the sound around.

The Airhead (and siblings) does just that - since the late nineties.
I presume in analog (bucket bridgade delay and all that) as the digital tech back then was pretty rough

I am pretty sure you are right.
Still i think digital is the way to go ... because it allows for some signal processing that with analog would be out of reach i think.
The drawback is that digital can be tricky ... but i will wait a bit.
I am sure that in some years time a very good and reasonably priced digital solution will come out ... and it will be a planetary success.
There is a enourmous request for real 3D HPs systems.
Just think of the investments in the 3d video games ... they will trigger more and more studies in virtual sound ... i am completely sure of this.
With some kind of lenses at a certain point would be possible to assist to a concert like being seated in the orchestra .... 😱
With an AV helmet .... this is from Virtual Research

Even military sector will boost these research ... maybe to drive drones ?

Thanks and regards, gino