+1, Bear - add to that occupational or recreational induced hearing damage & tinnitus, and the benefits of smooth HF response past extended 40K could be lost on a larger segment of the self proclaimed GEA community than would care to admit . Now there's a case for double blind testing
sreten - no doubt "super- tweetery" can be done intelligently, but we are talking a certain degree of audio-nervosa here, 😀 and I've personally seen guys spend well over $200 ea on certain models of Fostex horn super-tweeters and associated exotic crossover caps. Gorgeous pieces certainly, but it'd be polite to say that I did't quite "get it"
sreten - no doubt "super- tweetery" can be done intelligently, but we are talking a certain degree of audio-nervosa here, 😀 and I've personally seen guys spend well over $200 ea on certain models of Fostex horn super-tweeters and associated exotic crossover caps. Gorgeous pieces certainly, but it'd be polite to say that I did't quite "get it"
Yes sorry Dave - should have said much earlier Alpair 7.3.
I'll be honest ( always ) and say maybe I posted too soon about the super tweeters....just found myself going back and reading reviews about them ! Not that the Alpairs are lacking at all - this is my 1st venture into full range so I'll properly burn in the Alpairs before bothering you all again !
Dave my Source is Pioneer BDP LX-55 ( Blu ray ) optical out to - Beresford Bushmaster Mk2 DAC, Amp is Arcam A19. Very best regards to all, Steve.
Steve - no worries, I think your bigger dilemma is resolving the issue of HP filter and system level control.
The A19 has a pre-out, but not main-in loop, so you've got problem of how to HP the signal for Alpairs at line level, and still have full bandwidth signal available at pre-out for the Tannoy powered sub. The Harrsion F-mods will not accommodate you there, and neither will using the fixed line out from the Pioneer BD player.
Short of changing the Arcam for some combination of audio gear that can allow separation of pre & power amp functions, or ultimately moving to a small AVR with full bass management and digital XO, the short term solution might well be to go with passive speaker level HP filter for the Alpairs - far more costly in components than at line levels, but likely less than implementing supertweeters.
The A19 has a pre-out, but not main-in loop, so you've got problem of how to HP the signal for Alpairs at line level, and still have full bandwidth signal available at pre-out for the Tannoy powered sub. The Harrsion F-mods will not accommodate you there, and neither will using the fixed line out from the Pioneer BD player.
Short of changing the Arcam for some combination of audio gear that can allow separation of pre & power amp functions, or ultimately moving to a small AVR with full bass management and digital XO, the short term solution might well be to go with passive speaker level HP filter for the Alpairs - far more costly in components than at line levels, but likely less than implementing supertweeters.
It may well be possible to add power amp in.
Poor implementation of a PLLXO: TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover
dave
Bill Poster, we think alike
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/255452-super-tweeters.html#post3908439
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/255452-super-tweeters.html#post3908439
Hi,
Like I said adding a supertweeter to an FR
is all about power response, not treble.
rgds, sreten.
Like I said adding a supertweeter to an FR
is all about power response, not treble.
rgds, sreten.
I have done it effectively with drivers like the CSS EL70 that needed a little something on the top for my ears. Ribbons and the like seem to do it well.
If you want to try a super tweeter on the cheap, you cant beat a piezo. I use one rear facing with a 12db/oct Xover.
All very good, but I'm still not convinced that Alpair7s need any help in this regard - HP filtering and woofer assistance - certainly, but the highest (partial) octave is the last place I'd get spendy - but then I'm an old fart with buggered hearing above 10K, so perhaps I'm not as likely to appreciate the improvement.
Perhaps a service manual/ schematic is available for the A19 that could give a clue as to how easy it might be to insert a pre-power loop, IMHO the more pressing issue for the implementation that Steve is attempting.
Perhaps a service manual/ schematic is available for the A19 that could give a clue as to how easy it might be to insert a pre-power loop, IMHO the more pressing issue for the implementation that Steve is attempting.
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I agree, I also think that high passing the Alpairs will give me more mid and top end clarity but the last thing I wanted to do was put any type of passive crossover before the Alpairs. What attracted me to full range in the 1st place was direct connection from amp to speakers and therefore nothing in the way affecting SQ.
Anyone know of a simple but very high quality high pass ( 150 - 180 Hz ) passive filter that wouldn't degrade the sound - at all ?
As discussed Chris those Harrison lab filters are not an option - the Tannoy sub would be playing above 150 Hz also !!
Sorry guys to drag this away from my origional super tweeter posting !
Best regards to all, Steve.
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Well, in its simplest form line level filtering can be achieved passively as described in detail here
TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover
As there are very few parts required to achieve a simple 1st order function, and the actual values are very low due to the load impedance, you can afford to buy fairly high quality parts ( Caps / resistors) - indeed if you want to fabricate a separate little box for the XO, the case, RCA jacks and extra patch cord(s) will likely cost more than the components. Until I recently invested in a new HT receiver with built in digital crossover function for the front L&R main pair, that's what I used on several "FAST" builds.
And if I may, avoiding the unnecessary investment in Super Tweeters, might well be a blessing 😀
TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover
As there are very few parts required to achieve a simple 1st order function, and the actual values are very low due to the load impedance, you can afford to buy fairly high quality parts ( Caps / resistors) - indeed if you want to fabricate a separate little box for the XO, the case, RCA jacks and extra patch cord(s) will likely cost more than the components. Until I recently invested in a new HT receiver with built in digital crossover function for the front L&R main pair, that's what I used on several "FAST" builds.
And if I may, avoiding the unnecessary investment in Super Tweeters, might well be a blessing 😀
with the sub you'd be better looking at a 70-100 Hz high pass. A PLLXO that uses the amp's input R is a single small cap/channel.
dave
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