Super Tweeters

[Stresss42]

Hi to all,

just wondering if anyone has tried / heard these :

Bespoke Aria Isodynamic Ribbon Super Tweeters (ebay)

Interested to use them with some full range speakers I've just completed.

Thanks for any advice, all the best. Steve.

 

[chrisb]

Whenever I see the word "super" tweeter, I assume they're being considered in conjunction with either a 2-way or full-range system, and it's probably very helpful to know which exact system you have in mind for such augmentation

There are many current "wide-band" drivers that perform quite admirably in the top several octaves, and if in need of any assistance, it's more likely to be at the other end of the spectrum.

 

[planet10]

Take a decent isodynamic tweeter, mount in a tube with an L-Pad and a suitable cap (which willbe different for each speaker system the tweeter is used with), and away you go...a true ribbon will usually give you more HF extension.

dave

 

[Stresss42]

Thanks Dave but to be honest my electronics knowledge / skills are very limited....I'm very pleased with my Pencil build so (decent) wood working skills far exceed my soldering ability !

Was just wondering if Super tweeters are ever used with full range builds,
if they could improve things at all?

If so any reccomendations ?

Cheers Dave, all the best. Steve.

 

[planet10]

If you built Pensils, and plan on using these with them, then (unless you used CHP70.2) you would get little gain, if any, and could well degrade performance. For the price of the ones on eBay you might well be further ahead by putting themoney into stuff elsewhere in your system

There is some soldering involved, but i would not call a supertweeter project electronics, you just need to add a simple XO.

As to suggestions, the monacor isodynamic that Toppsy uses might fit the bill (there is a cheap one and a really cheap one), HiVi has some nice ones, the Fostex (if you can find any) are really good. Real ribbons tend to be quite pricier.

dave

 

[Cal Weldon]

What about these?

Dayton Audio AMT Mini-8 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter | 275-095

 

[tinitus]

the little Dayton looks cool

autoformer coupled is great too 🙂 (click on arrow in quote to see thread)

I will have to try and increase magnet field strenth by narrowing it
but this ribbon is not intended to play low anyway
or to be used at all
just experimental
but the experience may be useful for other project, maybe

 

[Samuel Jayaraj]

Fountek Ribbons.

 

[Stresss42]

What about these?

Dayton Audio AMT Mini-8 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter | 275-095

Thanks Cal, very nice. A Small cylindrical housing to mount the tweeters
and a simple crossover ( would need help with X-over ! ) would be ideal. And far cheaper than the ones I was looking at. Cheers, Steve.

 

[chrisb]

Getting the HP & various amp's level controls for the Pensils and sub matched & mastered as discussed off-line is one thing, but without sounding churlish, exactly how did you determined that you need super tweeters in the first place?

In any case, if you do decide to proceed, and you find the main driver has relatively smooth HF rolll-off, the XO required for the super tweeter is usually very simple - not much more than a single small value cap.

 

[Toppsy]

If you are going to use a ribbon as a supertweeter whether it be a true ribbon or a pseudo ribbon they generally require a minimum 12dB/octave (2nd order) slope crossover. So a simple cap (1st order) really wont do. If set up properly and crossed over at the right frequency they can add extra air to the top end and oddly enough appear to reinforce the bass. These changes though can be subtle.

You really need to check out the manufacturer FR plot for the ribbon to see how high a frequency it is capable of as some are no greater frequency extension than some conventional done tweeters or your full range / extended range driver. Also check the impedance for matching your main driver. One good thing regards ribbons is they are generally impedance flat so if they are rated as nominal 8-ohm load you can use a adjustable L-Pad to balance the output of the ribbon and I would recommended this. But this all adds to the cost and complexity.

 

[Stresss42]

Getting the HP & various amp's level controls for the Pensils and sub matched & mastered as discussed off-line is one thing, but without sounding churlish, exactly how did you determined that you need super tweeters in the first place?

In any case, if you do decide to proceed, and you find the main driver has relatively smooth HF rolll-off, the XO required for the super tweeter is usually very simple - not much more than a single small value cap.

Hi Chris, after finishing the Pencil build I had some free time on my hands so was looking at some reviews on the Townshend Maxim super tweeters plus the Tannoys, Fostex etc. I thought they may work well with my newly built full range drivers but as discussed the burn in process for the full range drivers is still in the early stages so top end improvement will no doubt come into effect. Dave said earlier in this thread there's also a chance super tweets may have a negative effect on stereo imaging which is absolutely what I want to avoid - so alot to think about. Cheers Chris, thanks again for your advice during my Pencil build !! All the best, Steve.

 

[chrisb]

Colin; that might be the case if you're crossing a ribbon over very low, but at the XO frequencies at which Steve's FR drivers ( CHR70s?) might arguably need augmentation, I'd be surprised if a 1st order didn't provide all the protection required. On the very few occasions that I've used any type of tweeter with a FR driver, I've hinged the knee of the XO in the 12-15K range, if not higher.

Steve: keep in mind the budget for adding supertweeters; some of the zoom-zoom types I've seen guys use ( Fostex horns, Arum Cantus ribbons, Heil / Mundorf AMTs, etc) can easily run several times the cost of an moderately priced FR driver such as the Mark Audio units I think you're using - pardon the question, but did you mention which model those are?

That's a shiiite load to spend on perhaps one octave of "air"

 

[Cal Weldon]

If he has CHR70's I wouldn't bother. Even my old construction ears don't need a helper.

 

[chrisb]

Well, I finally took a closer look at photo posted in Pensil build thread, and I think the size & texture of bezel ring suggest Alpair7.3 - a driver (and enclosure) with which I'm quite familiar.

I'd wager that money would be much better spent on the front end of source / signal processing for any system running these with sub-woofer support than on super tweeters.

 

[planet10]

I concur with Chris, A7.3 Silver. Attached pic from Steve's post in the Pensil pics thread.

Woofer before supertweeter (a7 doesn't really benefit from one), but make sure you have a really good amp 1st (what is your amp Steve?)

dave

 

[chrisb]

I think Steve is already working on HP-ing the Pensils and adding sub-woofer. (powered Tannoy 8")

 

[sreten]

Hi,

Supertweetery doesn't have to be expensive, if its expensive its stupid.

Cheap you can experiment, and often you set them lower in level
than the main driver, and bring them them in lower than you might
think, the main point being to improve the topend off axis power
response to something reasonable, rather than adding top end.

Dayton Audio ND20FB-4 Rear-Mount 3/4" Neodymium Dome Tweeter | 275-035
do :

Supertweeters designed to sit on the top of expensive multiway speakers
are very wrong always in terms of adding a helper tweeter to a full range.

rgds, sreten.

 

[Bill poster]

Dayton Audio AMT Mini-8 Air Motion Transformer Tweeter | 275-095

AMT super tweeter, good sound on the cheap.

 

[Bare]

No need to mention that the average Human Male is unlikely to actually Hear 15Khz let alone above it via their Ears.
Certainly so by age 50 (arguably age 40, but lets be generous/optimistic here)
Get yourself to a n Audiologist for comprehensive testings.
They will do that for free.. in the belief that they can sell you a $3,500 hearing aid setup.. play along.
Humbling experience is the best/only descriptor
So then: Super tweets either rely on odd harmonics making it thru a genuinely non receptive hearing physiology or via an unnaturally super sensitive Fundamental orifice.
Choose your fave leap of Faith 🙂