Well, like I said, you can play with the numbers and you can aurgue with the pro side of business who establishd these numbers to avoid clipping for various size venues all you want. You either need more power or greater effecienct speakers... the latter are more rare except in pro markets.
All you need to do is see if you clip your amps when playing. No more need to guess. just measure it your self with ones own amp and speakers. Then each will know.
When clipping indicator lights were put on consumer amps, they showed frequent clipping at user/dealer listening levels in show rooms.
Maybe we dont want to know? Thats what the dealers told the mfr. They couldnt sell amps which showed clipping (distortion generation) at normal listening/playback levels.
Thx-RNMarsh
All you need to do is see if you clip your amps when playing. No more need to guess. just measure it your self with ones own amp and speakers. Then each will know.
When clipping indicator lights were put on consumer amps, they showed frequent clipping at user/dealer listening levels in show rooms.
Maybe we dont want to know? Thats what the dealers told the mfr. They couldnt sell amps which showed clipping (distortion generation) at normal listening/playback levels.
Thx-RNMarsh
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There are many useful clip indicator in the PA amplifiers. I plan to use the indicator from the Crest FA series. It contains only 4 small signal transistors, and easy to implement to any existing amplifiers.
Sajti
Sajti
😎🙂
BTW -- noise has a crest factor of 10. Thats about 5-6dB too low (pop music) and possibly 10dB too low for uncompressed classical recordings.
[Crown developed a novel clipping indicator which is calibrated for distortion.... a compromise.... when distortion (due to clipping) reaches a certain level, the clipping indicator lights and protection comes in. This allows for some occassional clipping to happen before protection or limiting occures.]
Thx-RNMarsh
BTW -- noise has a crest factor of 10. Thats about 5-6dB too low (pop music) and possibly 10dB too low for uncompressed classical recordings.
[Crown developed a novel clipping indicator which is calibrated for distortion.... a compromise.... when distortion (due to clipping) reaches a certain level, the clipping indicator lights and protection comes in. This allows for some occassional clipping to happen before protection or limiting occures.]
Thx-RNMarsh
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Hi Richard,
Are those dB SPL numbers you mentioned all at 1 Meter (where loudspeaker efficiency is usually quoted)?
If so, I think one needs to consider that most listening is done at about 3 Meters in a reasonably-sized residential room.
Cheers,
Bob
If I remember correctly it takes double the amplifier power for every 3db of increased output at the speaker. That is a fairly steep exponential increase in power requirement for any speaker amplifier combination. Going from 84db to 100 db takes some substantial power amplification and this does not look at any peak level power requirements.
... which definitely does not have infinite dimensions, it is not an open space, so the SPL vs. distance is not trivial.
Most of the Parts express/Dayton -peerless woofers are 89-91db/W.
Same with most of the DIY tweeters (89-92db).
Paired with the "sweetspot" 150W a/b amp .... it all works out (loud as hell).
OS
I was just the other night at a Rock concert in a smallish Club, the music was loud and you could feel the pressure when he was kicking the drum. I measured the SPL and the average was about 98-100 dB, so if realistic level is demanded there's a need for quite a big voltage swing. and several output devices in parallel.
Ostripper,
Most of the rating for speaker efficiency are listing the peak output values and not the average output so you do need to look carefully at speaker efficiency. I have my own designed speakers, that means from the magnets out and they average about 86 db so even though I can easily make a 90+db tweeter to go with them unless they are used with electronic cross-overs and bi amplified, in other words with most passive x-overs you will have to pad the tweeter down to the woofers average output to match. I have some of the Peerless 10" bass speakers in my collection and they do like a bit of power to back them up if you are using them down to their FS frequency. Their limit is in their thermal handling, I have seen the center plastic caps on the pole piece melted and voicecoils burned for sure.
Most of the rating for speaker efficiency are listing the peak output values and not the average output so you do need to look carefully at speaker efficiency. I have my own designed speakers, that means from the magnets out and they average about 86 db so even though I can easily make a 90+db tweeter to go with them unless they are used with electronic cross-overs and bi amplified, in other words with most passive x-overs you will have to pad the tweeter down to the woofers average output to match. I have some of the Peerless 10" bass speakers in my collection and they do like a bit of power to back them up if you are using them down to their FS frequency. Their limit is in their thermal handling, I have seen the center plastic caps on the pole piece melted and voicecoils burned for sure.
Hi Bob,
No they were not. Not even for near-filed monitoring. All used realistic listening distances and room sizes. In other words.. real situations.
-RNM
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Yes!
A 400 watter, non- bridged, with switchable AFEC, SR 250 V/us and < 5 ppm at 20 kHz at 350 W out, and PSRR 120 dB at 1 kHz
😉
😎😀
Thx-RNMarsh
As detailed he was with the specifications, I believe he really does... He said once he was working on something HIGH powered...I would 😀 to see it.
400 watts into 8 ohms or 400 watts into 2 ohms? in terms of power supply there are differences....
or is there an unwritten convention somewhere that says that the 400 watt specs is into 8 ohms?
or is there an unwritten convention somewhere that says that the 400 watt specs is into 8 ohms?
. . . into 8 ohms of course.
It will go into the big modushop case. Maybe I will lay the boards out to fit the same pre-drilled chasssis from the diyaudio shop . . . .
Use same protection board as e-Amp
2 kVA transformer
I will start layout straight after my pre-amp is completed
😀
It will go into the big modushop case. Maybe I will lay the boards out to fit the same pre-drilled chasssis from the diyaudio shop . . . .
Use same protection board as e-Amp
2 kVA transformer
I will start layout straight after my pre-amp is completed
😀
thanks for the clarification Bonsai.....
i am used to seeing a power spec into an ohms load, i thought i have missed something...
i am used to seeing a power spec into an ohms load, i thought i have missed something...
+-90VDC? 😱😱... 😎
Which class? AB, G, or H?
I waiting..... I wonder how can such monster can match in low level quality with 50-100W amp.
I assume that since this is Bonsai's design this will be a class ab amplifier with a fairly nice class A section before going into class B. Bonsai, can I assume that you will have a lower voltage on the input and VAS sections?
Bimo,
Why would you automatically assume that a high power amplifier has to give up resolution compared to a low power amplifier? Ostripper's designs are just multiplying the number of output devices, why should this have to result in inferior sound quality?
Bimo,
Why would you automatically assume that a high power amplifier has to give up resolution compared to a low power amplifier? Ostripper's designs are just multiplying the number of output devices, why should this have to result in inferior sound quality?