I said this before, but once more and for the last time, this amounts to personal taste.
I hate marmite but i'm not going to ridicule someone who likes it, just because they like it and I do not. Why don't we all just do the same when it's their preference in music format verses yours?
I hate marmite but i'm not going to ridicule someone who likes it, just because they like it and I do not. Why don't we all just do the same when it's their preference in music format verses yours?
Well, you just have to stop fooling around with that kiddy stuff, and get the proper He-man concoction, Vegemite ...
Then you will begin to understand, grasshopper ... 😉
Then you will begin to understand, grasshopper ... 😉
well talk for yourself. maybe your digital rig isnt good, but you talk like all digital rig are created equal.
Why digital often sucks is because of most DACs introduce dramatic problems to the signal: timing issues, clocking problems, jitter, noise, psu, ect.
Vinyl, if done right, eliminate all of the digital problems, and yes my vinyl rig used to be much better then my digital rig, all the coherence, musicality, feeling was much better rendred on my vinyl source, until I got a good DAC.
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I can play that game too
I think it is quite the contrary. People try to find all possible defects of CDs to convince themselves vinyl is better. The reality is vinyl is inferior, it has always been and the CD player just has to work, that's all. If the digital set-up is seriously good (which means pretty much everything on the market, those horrible mega expensive CD players don't solve anything) then vinyl is vastly inferior.... 🙂
Sorry, but assertion and opinion is only of value to you, and no-one else.
Cheers,
Jacob
lol, really!
a good vinyl rig does thing that I have only heard in extremely well enginered cdplayer. Most cdplayer I have heard sounds fatiguing, harsh, simply bad compared to a well adjusted vinyl rig.
This thread is hilarious. now vinyl is clearly less good then digital rig,
the cd player just has to work. yeah so just buy a sony cd player and be done with it. it will automatically be better then any vinyl rig.
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🙄
The point I'm trying to convey is that arguing on this basis is pointless, it's opinion against opinion.
To get around this we *have* to use measurement - yes, yes, there will be those who steadfast refuse to accept that "it can all be captured by measurements" but that's a trap for everyone, as it immediately reduces the argument to one of opinion (again).
Which leaves two options. Either you use measurements for your basis of comparison, or opinion. Until such time we can quantify "ambiance" or "musicality" or any other so far undefined terms in a repeatable manner, I'll be siding with the measurement camp, thanks. I've been led astray by believing in people's opinions and assertions far too many times before.
cheers,
Jacob
The point I'm trying to convey is that arguing on this basis is pointless, it's opinion against opinion.
To get around this we *have* to use measurement - yes, yes, there will be those who steadfast refuse to accept that "it can all be captured by measurements" but that's a trap for everyone, as it immediately reduces the argument to one of opinion (again).
Which leaves two options. Either you use measurements for your basis of comparison, or opinion. Until such time we can quantify "ambiance" or "musicality" or any other so far undefined terms in a repeatable manner, I'll be siding with the measurement camp, thanks. I've been led astray by believing in people's opinions and assertions far too many times before.
cheers,
Jacob
you can have two speaker that measure almost alike, but sound completely different. measurments doesnt say much when it comes to quality of perception and enjoyment of sound or how a speaker will sound.
Even if you want to measure, what do you measure? It all comes down to the gear you have and most of us never heard both stte of the art digital and vinyl at the same time, with the same system. A valuable opinion can only be valuable if you can listen to enough digital rigs and vinyl rigs that it covers most technologies of both, say 20 cdplayer and 20 vinyl rigs, then see which one you prefered.
When I compared, to find a good transport for my buffalo dac, cd players, I compared around 25 damn cd players, and all had their different sound. And were only talking about a transport here, not the DAC in the cd player.
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Just looked up your digital component, SD1 SD Player | EC designs. These people are making all the right noises - people may dispute their reasoning and methods, the wording used, but they appear to have been through the wars, in terms of what you need to do if you're serious about getting clean digital sound, once you tune into the type of artifacts introduced by replay from bits ..
CD measures vastly superior to vinyl. There is plenty of information on that. In my opinion, the correlation between the measurements and the superiority of CD is quite obvious.
If you prefer vinyl, great, but if you want to assert its superiority without any other supporting information, I wont believe you. Come up with a repeatable way to measure whatever it is you hear/feel is superior about vinyl, which can be replicated anywhere else by following the same techniques as you used, then I will be very interested it give it go.
Until then I'm firmly in the CD and digital camp.
cheers,
Jacob
If you prefer vinyl, great, but if you want to assert its superiority without any other supporting information, I wont believe you. Come up with a repeatable way to measure whatever it is you hear/feel is superior about vinyl, which can be replicated anywhere else by following the same techniques as you used, then I will be very interested it give it go.
Until then I'm firmly in the CD and digital camp.
cheers,
Jacob
It actually reads as quite factual when you put it that way Jacob!
And yes, I think you make your point quite well, too.
Thats the thing, you cannot correlate measuremnts with sound quality.
Take two speaker that measure the same with most variables, they can and will sound completely different. So that tells you right there that measurments doesnt say much on the perceived sound quality.
Even the speaker with the worst measuremts could sound better. at the end of the day, my ears are the best judge, yours also and the only mean to evaluate sound quality.
so again, the only way to really have a valuable opinion with the digital vs analog is to take 20 analog and 20 digital system and do a blind test, and then see which one you prefered. no measurments needed, only your ear and your favorite music! thats the only way to know what is superior.
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You can't correlate measurement with quality? So all those hours and hours spent by designers testing amplifiers, turntables, CD players, DACs, etc for THD, S/N ratio and a host of other measurements mean nothing? 😕
There is *always* a measurable difference, if it exists. I'm open to the idea we may not yet be able to test for *every* important factor, but that is not a reason to throw away the measurements for what we have already proven *does* matter.
The rest of your response simply distills down to "If I like what I hear, damn the measurements", and that's a valid position to take, but not a valid one to take when arguing about the technical superiority of something.
cheers,
Jacob
Ask them to reopen the article's comments function and reinstate all the many comments they removed years ago, that exposed the weaknesses of the article. Good luck.
only for a strawman selection of "most variables" - try Klippel, Toole, Getsinger, Geddes level of speaker measurements - complete polars, frequency/phase, impulse, SPL level sweeps, bursts/power loading - all tests that can be found in the literature - heck many are already menu items in current Audio Precision testers
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A phono pickup is a measurement device; it puts out continuous electrical signals that are suppose to have a perfect correlation with the continuous displacements in groove walls along the average track trajectory.
They can be readily compared for correlation with electrical signals used in cutting head.
Relative to digital, this correlation sucks in comparison to digital medium.
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