Are paper speakers good for subs?

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Mast0rMason

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#1
I got some Eminence speakers off my dad, spoke about it previously before inactivity, but they're paper cones and paper rimmed bits. Would it make a decent subwoofer? It's 8ohms.



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#2
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#4
Paper cones under 15" dia. generally don't make good subs.

4 of them may work well in a bass guitar cabinet but not as a sub.

A sub typically has a Fs of at least half of what these are rated at (71hz).

I Doubt very much that they would have any usable Xmax below about 40hz.

There isn't very much info on them and by the looks of them and what ever info I could find screams Musical Instrument use or even stage monitor use, But not sub use.

jer 🙂
 
#5
AndrewT said:
What makes them unsuitable?
lack of power handling?
high Fs?
low Sd?
low Xmax?
low BL?
something else?
Click to expand...

A combination (probably) of Fs too high, Xmax too low, and Qts too low. The driver likely has high passband sensitivity, which is what the pro sound application requires, but as a tradeoff in the design you lose the low end as a result.

In the past I have often been drawn to pro woofers for subwoofer duty, especially when I see high sensitivity (I don't like to have to use 500+ watt amplifiers!). But when you do the modeling, you see that you would often be better off with a relatively low sensitivity, high-excursion home audio subwoofer instead in terms of low frequency output capability.

I should add that Eminence makes some good paper cone subwoofer drivers like the Lab 12. The cone material really has nothing to do with it.
 
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#6
geraldfryjr said:
Paper cones under 15" dia. generally don't make good subs.

4 of them may work well in a bass guitar cabinet but not as a sub.

A sub typically has a Fs of at least half of what these are rated at (71hz).

I Doubt very much that they would have any usable Xmax below about 40hz.

There isn't very much info on them and by the looks of them and what ever info I could find screams Musical Instrument use or even stage monitor use, But not sub use.

jer 🙂
Click to expand...

I performed a frequency test from 10-100hz and it produced all of them, although its not possible to hear under 20hz I believe, I still saw the cone move. So surely it would be okay?
 
#7
if designed with a proper box, yes they are "passable" for sub woofer work.
Passable by my definition is your not expecting those to rattle windows and vibrate the chair with you in it. On the plus side it will require very few watts to work.

A 6th order band pass design can turn just about any speaker into a useable sub.
Finding a program to let you simulate 6th order bandpass is the challenge.
Ported is the easiest way to go but there are people who prefer closed boxes.
Play with some simulations. I prefer WinISD, its easy and it works.

You need to restrict the highs as those speakers will gladly reproduce sounds above 1k.
Active EQ, or lots of stuffing.

I use Eminence 10 inch Alphas and Deltas for my bass guitar.
A single 10" cab that I use 90% of the time is also my sub woofer in my garage.
 
#12
As Quoted~"I performed a frequency test from 10-100hz and it produced all of them, although its not possible to hear under 20hz I believe, I still saw the cone move. So surely it would be okay?"

Any speaker will still be moving as low as even 10Hz or even 1Hz, But did you do a frequency response measurement (in an enclosure)?

This is will give a very good indication as to whether or not it would make a good sub driver.

I didn't say that it would not work, as it certainly would produce sound.

I said that they are not suitable for sub use as they are clearly not designed for such use.
Don't expect a lot of performance out of them as already mentioned.

I have a 610 cabinet loaded with Pyle PP10's and they handle every bit of 200 watts a piece and there cones move just fine at 20Hz.

However they are very noisy at 20Hz and don't perform well at all below about 45Hz to 55Hz or so as the THD goes through the roof at this point.
Their surrounds don't have enough Xmax for low THD sub use.

I use them for my Guitar and Bass guitar rig just fine as that is what they are mean't to be used for.
They sound terrible for HI-FI sub use even though there are six of them for an increased surface area.

Upon further research I have found that these 10" drivers are the fore runners (pre-1998) of what is now called the Eminence Beta10,

http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_10A.pdf

Eminence Beta-10A speaker. The Eminence Beta 10A is a 10" 8 ohm speaker.

Take a look at the data sheet and you will see that their frequency response drops off sharply starting at about 70hz (-6db).

They are very nice drivers, However they aren't very nice sub drivers.

FWIW

jer 🙂
 
#13
You can Email Eminence the spec codes on the label and they will send you any specs that they have on your driver if they have them on hand.
In your case that would be 10524 and the model ME10-1008

By the code 67-973?xxxx Your drivers were made in 1997 week3? serial XXXX.

Eminence Speaker is proud to offer unparalleled customer support | Eminence Speaker

jer 🙂

P.S Here is the link to the open air frequency response charts in nearfield that I did on my Pyle PPA10 drivers just to show you how badly these type of drivers frequency response tends to fall off at the low end, and, they have nearly twice the Xmax at 5.8mm compared to 3mm for the eminence drivers.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/205114-cheap-diy-pa-system.html#post2926850
 
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#14
The original poster's drivers are not suitable for subs, but the paper cone is not the root cause of it. That's not to say they can't be used for for subs, just not the best choice.

On a completely different note: The original poster asked whether he could use his drivers for subs. He was wrong about paper cones being the relevant factor. Why not just answer his question instead of turning this into a ______ match about cone materials and who is right and who is wrong?
 
#15
My point exactly!!!

I merely stated as reference to the original poster that most any paper driver that I have ever had the pleasure of using with good results for sub use were ones that are equal to or greater than 15" dia.

And I never said anything about whether or not paper is a suitable material as that is what driver was made of.

I simply stated that the driver is not suitible for sub use and then asked why this is, and quite bluntly, It is because it has a very limited Xmax of only 3mm, Not because it is made of paper.

Paper is one of the best materials to use for a sub or any driver due to its low mass and high strength ratio as long as it has the proper excursion capability for its intended lowest frequency range.

Drivers with paper surrounds (reinforced or not) generally don't allow enough Xmax to warrant good use as a sub woofer unless they are large in diameter to make up the difference in lost displacement because of the low Xmax, or, unless you have many more drivers working together as one.

Sorry for the confusion!!

jer 🙂
 
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