I also posted them as peteleoni asked as well.
What is your concern?
My own example: Last week I destroyed my output devices and replaced them with 2N3055s as it's what I had lying around. I haven't got around to replacing them yet...it still sounds good. Sure, I can hear a difference and I'd like to be using some 3281s but the difference is relatively small to me compared with certain speaker related issues.
What is your concern?
My own example: Last week I destroyed my output devices and replaced them with 2N3055s as it's what I had lying around. I haven't got around to replacing them yet...it still sounds good. Sure, I can hear a difference and I'd like to be using some 3281s but the difference is relatively small to me compared with certain speaker related issues.
Gedlee paper, nice. What I would like to see is testing of amps *ala Toole* -speakers, using *lots* of people with *lots* of sources *twisting that knob* I postulated in my post above and averaged. IMO the Toole/Olive thing is down to earth. That makes it palpable. If I had a big point to make, I would try to make it simple. What I do not like is the "good enough" approach. (not speaking of the very nice aforementioned paper, let's not get pwadded) That good enough approach is what landed us with MP3's which are not.
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It seems that in order to overlap the current grey area of knowledge, rather than to try to navigate it, involves some effort. Pick your poison. I prefer one and respect both.
Farmer Brown's new scale might be look great but I do want to be certain that it doesn't favor his tomatoes. I guess the farmers all get together and test each others scales, but tend to trust the crops more than the scales.
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1.Who said I was sure? Been mixing and mastering for a living all of my life, and that means I know I can't be 100% certain.
2. Anechoic chamber
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You're good. I was going to ask you about perception.
Say you were given a test between 0 and 10% 3rd harmonic. If there was (say 0.1% 9th or something perceptible but background) added to it would it significantly affect your ability to detect the 3rd?
Say you were given a test between 0 and 10% 3rd harmonic. If there was (say 0.1% 9th or something perceptible but background) added to it would it significantly affect your ability to detect the 3rd?
I enjoy the harvesting the Gedlee white papers, there is always some grainable wheat in there. Reminds me of my childhood in Montana. Work hard don't step in something get the good stuff out, bring it home
Darn 😀
No, but yes, but.. There are worse things. So in considering these and on a sliding scale I'd say, kind of.
Interesting. Just had a look at it, and it turns out to be a very good test recording, from the point of view that some elements of the mix are heavily distorted, like the drums, and others not, like the lead and backing vocals, and other instruments. Separating the two cleanly in the sound space would not be trivial for most systems ...
Frank would have us believe that we are all incompetent and only he knows the answer. I've done this stiff my whole life, I know how to do it right.
As I said, it is far easier to just write off inconvenient results than to accept them. Its like global warming - 99.8% of all scientists accept this as fact, but the skeptics will point to the other .2% and say "Its not proven."
Yes it has and the results are shown on my web site. Procedure was a little different because yours would have a bias built in. Better to do random presentations and ask for a rating. Then you can look at consistency of responses.
PS. - I see the papers got posted. What often gets missed in these is that they do not say that nonlinear distortion is not audible, only that the usual methods of measurement are meaningless. Over the years, refinement has shown that some electrical distortions are quite audible, but few loudspeaker nonlinearities are. But, its not too hard to find electrical equipment that has no audible nonlinearities if you know what you are looking for. Its impossible if all you use is THD or IMD.
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That research was done in the 1920s, and repeated in the 1960 and '80s, IIRC. I'll look it up when I get home and post references. It's called Harmonic Masking.
Just to clarify one matter, I mistook the posting of links by AllenB as relating to the post by nochopeper, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/120847-what-causes-listening-fatigue-118.html#post3602107, so my response to the contents of those papers was not relevant. And I appreciate the research done by yourself, I discovered your work many years ago and learnt many important aspects of sound perception from it.
My disagreement is regarding the finer points of optimum sound reproduction, there are subtleties there that to me appear largely overlooked by the research to date, and my hope is that at some stage this would be properly addressed ...
I would like to see that as I have never seen such work.
Why worry about the "subtleties" when in fact major effects of hearing and perception are unknown. Don't loose the forest for the trees worrying about the toilet flushing properly while the ship is sinking.
Just like in design it is best to research the major things first before getting all hung up on the "subtleties".
*SNIP*
Unless the content of the toilet is what is making the ship sink. 😉 It might be a set of religiously held inaccurate beliefs, or just badly insufficient experience combined with confidence, or maybe woefully undersized speakers. Any of those are plenty to sink the ship, and they sure do stink to deal with!
Unless the content of the toilet is what is making the ship sink. 😉 It might be a set of religiously held inaccurate beliefs, or just badly insufficient experience combined with confidence, or maybe woefully undersized speakers. Any of those are plenty to sink the ship, and they sure do stink to deal with!
I'm just modifying the analogy- A ship tends to be a well constructed thing, I'm using the absurdities set forth in this thread as the contents of the bowl, so foul and significant that they sink the whole ship, stinking while they do it. Childish? A-yup.
Remember that the poster claiming that distortion is the key source of issues, is the same one maximizing distortion via use of tiny, trashy speakers played at (claimed) ACDC dance levels for a house party. That the drivers are good enough but the boxes are the problem.