I have to buy by graphs and specs. This titanium dome midrange looks like it may be of the least muddy midrange drivers without that speaker in a coffe can sound. But oh, it's $130 each. It has about the best curve plot I have seen and already in the can. No need to build an enclosure.
Any comments on how a titanium or aluminum dome midrange might sound ?
DSM 50 FFL - 8 Ohm
Any comments on how a titanium or aluminum dome midrange might sound ?
DSM 50 FFL - 8 Ohm
It's a nice driver, but you should be aware that it will have somewhat stronger edge diffraction than a larger driver on the same baffle. However, you might have some more space for a nice baffle radius with this. It has wide dispersion up to about 3-4 kHz, so integration with a tweeter should be easy.
Nice easy up slope too. Most mids I find have lots of peaks and valleys. And the closed back ones have a big peak around 800 - 1000 hz.
But still, I wonder if the metal dome reduces that speaker in a coffee can sound. BTW, some padded coffee cans might work (volume trimmed) for a midrange enclosure. 😀
But still, I wonder if the metal dome reduces that speaker in a coffee can sound. BTW, some padded coffee cans might work (volume trimmed) for a midrange enclosure. 😀
Metal dome is controversial so at least you should have listened a design with titanium before buying.
and probably this one too, if they showed the real graph
the one you see is more like a 'cartoon graph' 😀
I had look at a German kit with this driver, and they say the whole speaker as such sounds a bit 'laid back'
I am still shopping, haven't bought them yet. Need to populate two empty 1.7cf Realistic Mach 10 cabinets. I am hoping a three way will help divide the load. Speakers are not just speakers.
I have a set of Sony SS-B1000's that are excellent for me, crystal clear highs, like by triangles, very slightly muddy mids, and I don't even try to use any bookshelf speaker below 200 hz.
I also have some RCA Pro LX-550 Linaeums I replaced the surrounds on, they're 10 years old.
Try the Sony's first, say Philip Glass 1000 Airplanes CD.
Next the Linaeums. I can hear a whole bunch of mid and high details with the Linaeums I can't hear on the B1000's. And I think it's a tuba at it's lowest bass, the Sony's are a bit soft on the waveform attack, a sort of cracking sound, the Linaeums are very sharp and make a big difference there also. The Linaeum has a Kevlar cone, the B1000 a poly cone.
I'm gonna have to mush on and take my time to find the best way to go with these cabinets.
I have a set of Sony SS-B1000's that are excellent for me, crystal clear highs, like by triangles, very slightly muddy mids, and I don't even try to use any bookshelf speaker below 200 hz.
I also have some RCA Pro LX-550 Linaeums I replaced the surrounds on, they're 10 years old.
Try the Sony's first, say Philip Glass 1000 Airplanes CD.
Next the Linaeums. I can hear a whole bunch of mid and high details with the Linaeums I can't hear on the B1000's. And I think it's a tuba at it's lowest bass, the Sony's are a bit soft on the waveform attack, a sort of cracking sound, the Linaeums are very sharp and make a big difference there also. The Linaeum has a Kevlar cone, the B1000 a poly cone.
I'm gonna have to mush on and take my time to find the best way to go with these cabinets.
Last edited:
A dome mid 3 way with a sealed 10" woofer could definitely be a nice speaker.
Nothing wrong with metal drivers as long as you control the breakup, and keep the harmonic peaking outside of the pass-band.
you could also use a cone mid with a simple mid chamber added to the cabinet. Take a 6" sonotube and cut it down to fit the depth of the box with a few inches to spare, cap off one end with a piece of scrap wood, and then glue it to the back side of the mid cutout.
Nothing wrong with metal drivers as long as you control the breakup, and keep the harmonic peaking outside of the pass-band.
you could also use a cone mid with a simple mid chamber added to the cabinet. Take a 6" sonotube and cut it down to fit the depth of the box with a few inches to spare, cap off one end with a piece of scrap wood, and then glue it to the back side of the mid cutout.
Oh so midrange drivers are that forgiving to volume ? I was going calculate the mid chamber by T/S. I do have some Goldwood GM-85/8 I got to play with, sealed back with lovely lady lumps, yea her humps. Can't hear anything sassy below 15k where it breaks up but it's a bit muddy. I'm even considering some flat response 4-5" full rangers 800 to 5khz.
Last edited:
It's something that can be easily dealt with in the xover. The roll off and impedance you get from the driver in a enclosure is what you design from, as long as it isnt way to small for the intended driver it isnt an issue.
This is a point of contention. Some believe it is an issue while others say not. I believe it is as do many others, two sides of the fence so to speak. Certainly a bit more difficult than a low break up driver to pass off to a mid or a tweeter.
Wavewhipper, caution with the Xmax limitation with mid domes driving them low. With a 10" you'll probably want it around 1.2kHz to maintain proper off axis power response. This may exhibit raggedness when driven hard. Use a filter to mellow the impedance peak will help clean up IM in the mids pass band.
Do you have distortion measurements to back that up? With an Fs of what 480Hz you would cross that low, remember that when crossing over it is imperative to null the impedance peak or else there won't be any restriction in excursion below the crossover point until it's lower than the resonance. So crossing at 800 12/db/octave slope like the manufacture claims, will result in 4 times that excursion at Fs.
I would not suggest a second order network either, LR4 or perhaps a BW3 with the impedance peak nulled would work nicely at 1.2kHz. The result would integrate with the woofers power response seamlessly.
Decided on a tweeter yet? 5K LR4 would be work well with an impedance trap, maybe an amt? The airborne rt20021 matches this point well and is tiny small and low distortion. Response out beyond 30 and good polars. They're under $50ea
Well sure a dome mid with a large impedance spike will require compensation if crossing low, same thing should be done with many tweeters. Proper crossover design for the intended driver is a given.
It has been shown at Zaph that LR2 at 850 hz equals 100 watts power handling for a 2" dome mid with 1 mm xmax
LR4 wont be an issue.
Do you have any measurements for your claims?
It has been shown at Zaph that LR2 at 850 hz equals 100 watts power handling for a 2" dome mid with 1 mm xmax
LR4 wont be an issue.
Do you have any measurements for your claims?
I'm not very learned on LR crossovers, barely know Butterworths. This link shows the LR to be sensitive to driver spacing and demonstrates some serious phase valleys in relation to driver spacing. I already have the cutouts made, so I'll need to use something not very sensitive to driver spacing :
http://audio.claub.net/tutorials/Consideration of Phase in Loudspeaker Design.pdf
I can adjust crossover frequencies, was thinking a mid driver would deliver brighter mids . Add in a confirmed theory I had in which some mid frequencies get bashed around in the severe air turbulence of low bass and here came my desire to cross lower, low as I can. Speaker design (serious design) is new to me. I find amplifier design and troubleshooting much easier.
http://audio.claub.net/tutorials/Consideration of Phase in Loudspeaker Design.pdf
I can adjust crossover frequencies, was thinking a mid driver would deliver brighter mids . Add in a confirmed theory I had in which some mid frequencies get bashed around in the severe air turbulence of low bass and here came my desire to cross lower, low as I can. Speaker design (serious design) is new to me. I find amplifier design and troubleshooting much easier.
Last edited:
Driver spacing simply tells you at what frequency you can cross the drivers without issue (should be within a wavelength at crossover frequency). LR, BW, etc are acoustic slopes which can be shaped with the crossover components. They can really be anything as long as you align the phase through the crossover, and the slope is sufficient to protect a driver, which is what all the discussion about crossing a 2" dome LR4 was about.
Text book alignments are nice for study, but in reality the drivers will "speak to you" and slope/frequency/phase will all come together, assuming you know what you're doing.
Text book alignments are nice for study, but in reality the drivers will "speak to you" and slope/frequency/phase will all come together, assuming you know what you're doing.
Last edited:
Aligning phase isn't the easiest thing to pull off without very careful choice of driver, crossover type, slope and compensation if used. This should meld nicely for at least an octave to ensure accuracy and balance.
Ha ha many people think it's just some speakers mounted on a box and a bunch of jibber jabber to raise the price, I did wonder if it were jacked. Then they sit to listen in a phase valley and miss half the sounds in the music sometimes.
I have time to learn, that is the idea of this. That Philip Glass 1000 Airplanes CD is great for showing that and has me working. It's like music within music within music...... Actually it is a modern symphony made with synthesizers and has complex waveforms that prove a speaker's compliance ability. Plus the dynamics are wide and can thrash a poor system violently.
I have time to learn, that is the idea of this. That Philip Glass 1000 Airplanes CD is great for showing that and has me working. It's like music within music within music...... Actually it is a modern symphony made with synthesizers and has complex waveforms that prove a speaker's compliance ability. Plus the dynamics are wide and can thrash a poor system violently.
Last edited:
That's the consumer market in a nutshell. So many decent designs (or not) yet short change the crossover to keep the price inline and you have exciting vibrant yuck.
They sound very good I used them for about 10 years.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/137036-big-bandpass-fatboy.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/137036-big-bandpass-fatboy.html
- Status
- Not open for further replies.