did i mention that the speaker has to behave like single driver?
no class AB. Only A or B. And that is class A at most of your listening SPL.
It seems like your "belief" is more along the order of "I hear when I tweak it, and I'm happy with that, and so tweaking must be absolutely critical." The part I don't get is where you bridge that gap from "tweaking made it better" to "tweaking makes a computer speaker better than expensive hifi speakers" or "tweaking makes a HTIB amp better than Bryston".
You're entitled to your beliefs and preferences, but your arguments about not needing 100hz.... because the trash speakers you tested it on didn't do well below that, on a youtube recording.....
That's either trolling or delusion or a little of both. Cutting off 2 octaves simply isn't high fidelity, just like it's impossible to get clean high output from small inexpensive drivers. Just because you've adapted your expectations to what you have, doesn't mean that it's good in absolute terms.
Here is the problem with your arguement. I have several recordings of only vocal harmony and hand clapping for it's entirety. There is nothing below 100Hz in these recordings. Because of your extreme absolute view do not feel a speaker is high fidelity unless it can do the lower two octaves or so everything is in contempt of your definition. When listening to these recordings it is a complete waste to have a speaker that does this and yet if it is not high fidelity these recordings sound like absolute crap. So yes, I am calling you out on your extreme view of the term HiFi. 🙄
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Not exactly your average recording though, is it?
For people of my age the average recording would be a band consisting of vocals, guitar, drum and bass. The lowest note a band like that can produce is the open E string on the bass whose fundamental frequency is 42Hz or there abouts.
So in my view a speaker worthy of the 'Hi-Fi' label would have to be able to reproduce 42Hz without much of a problem. I'd accept 42Hz at -6dB.
If you're younger than me you'd have to account for keyboards and digital delivery media which makes things more difficult.
For people of my age the average recording would be a band consisting of vocals, guitar, drum and bass. The lowest note a band like that can produce is the open E string on the bass whose fundamental frequency is 42Hz or there abouts.
So in my view a speaker worthy of the 'Hi-Fi' label would have to be able to reproduce 42Hz without much of a problem. I'd accept 42Hz at -6dB.
If you're younger than me you'd have to account for keyboards and digital delivery media which makes things more difficult.
The Tannoy still has a 24dB L-R xover at 1200Hz which is inaudible to me and some active eq on it to flatten the tweeter output.
Since my amps are described by the manufacturer as being 'bipolar class AB' amps and, according to wiki, AB remains a genuine amp classification I'll stick by that.
The fact that they run fairly high in class A is neither here nor there, there is nothing stopping you or anybody from building a Class AB amp and bias it accordingly. I was just lucky enough to find amps already designed in such a way but they still class AB IMO.
I'm 51 and listen to everything. The point I was trying to make is how we define HiFi. To say that if you do not have everything from 16Hz to infinifty is not HiFi and is garbage, trolling and delusional really is an insult to everyone.
Oh good grief! The point was made to emphasize what those recordings require to be HiFi, not everything in general. For example, I don't have control over the content of what is going on or being played at the Peace Center for Performing Arts in Greenville SC or the Charlotte Coliseum or UNC Chapel Hill to name a few I've been instrumental in setting up and maintaining.
Late night in an apt, I'll kill off the deepest of bass so as to not disturb others.. Does that mean it's not HiFi, hardly not.
Im pointing out that amp matters a lot in preventing fatigue. Class A is the safe way here. It is usually inaudible but can be felt as long as fatigue is concerned.
For class B i prefer simple circuit like vssa and bg1-bjt. No opamp for sure. Most complex amp i have is a goldmund clone coz i own some special dual jfets.
Tannoy seems to know the importance of making a speaker that behave like a single driver. Their speakers are usually kept for a life/long time by the owners. Thats a sign.
Most people are more interested in impression than fatigue-free. They are after the most impressive sound. Which is typical hi end stuffs today. Thats why this thread exist.
I have never paid attention to fatiguing aspect when choosing class A amp becoz there are only a few such amps. Choice of transistor is important too. Most class A tend to have problem with speaker damping. So i dont think theres universal best one.
I play music all day so hi power class A is expensive for me. I have aleph-j and still building current fb ones. Like tssa/ssa/vssa but class A using various output types. Mostly better than F5 at highs and overall but F5 is more balanced frequency wise.
Have you build the Aleph J? I know j109 is hard to find but it plays important role for the quality. I use slightly different schema to accomodate my chosen output mosfet.
What is your amp? Blameless type?
First of all, people need to get off this thrashing of YouTube material. Many clips are of very high intrinsic quality, and if one goes about extracting and optimising the audio of these there are absolutely no issues with using such.
I have 2 quality audio tracks extracted from YouTube that are on the two sides of the "spectrum": a 'straight' recording of triple drumkits where the bass hump lies in the the 100-200Hz range, there is virtually nothing significant below about 70Hz - bizarrely enough, the biggest peak in this area occurs when 2 drumsticks are rubbed together !! ; and on the other side, a highly artificial recording, a dance track version of Frankie Goes to Hollywood's "Relax", where synthesizer beats are the 'thing' - here the bass spectrum builds up steadily until there is a huge peak at 60Hz, dominating everything.
So, if your cup of tea is listening to chest vibrating pulsations of sound originating from the signals generated by programming then the last couple of octaves will be crucial - but if one is happy with the notes produced 99.9% of the time by conventional instruments then it won't be quite so critical ...
Edit: BTW, I never said the HT was better than the Bryston - rather that the latter amp was the most impressive one I've come across in untweaked form, certainly quite superior to any I've used personally.
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No mod actually. Just different resistance at the trimpot position to accomodate different mosfet. It is babelfish to be precise.
As for fatigue aspect i have never paid attention to that in term of listening by ears.
Like i said class A (and low power amps) tend to have issue with speaker damping. You can feel the big effort to produce fast lows and this is fatiguing. Hi transconductance mosfet and suitable circuit to drive the gate capacitance is important (the reason you choose irf510).
Your class B amp must have good sonic due to the transconductance of the hexfet but the midhi will not match aleph j or vssa i believe.
A good solution is to have a speaker that doesnt rely too much on amp to sound good. Then you can choose amp based on its inherent capability not suitability.
No Highs, No Lows, That's Distortion.....
IME, music recordings that have decent bass sound distorted on speakers with insufficient low end extension.
For example, I have a choice of several 8" two ways that on first listen are quite adequate and reasonably pleasing.
When I power up my sub, and get the sub level and crossover point carefully correct without changing the 8" level, the two systems merge seamlessly, and perceived upper bass/lower mid distortion goes down, and then the fun factor starts.
Turn the sub off, and the perceived distortion is even more readily apparent.
On spoken word radio services, the same characteristic is evident.
Dan.
IME, music recordings that have decent bass sound distorted on speakers with insufficient low end extension.
For example, I have a choice of several 8" two ways that on first listen are quite adequate and reasonably pleasing.
When I power up my sub, and get the sub level and crossover point carefully correct without changing the 8" level, the two systems merge seamlessly, and perceived upper bass/lower mid distortion goes down, and then the fun factor starts.
Turn the sub off, and the perceived distortion is even more readily apparent.
On spoken word radio services, the same characteristic is evident.
Dan.
You're making this far too easy, though that's safe to assume from the absurd suppositions that predicate this disagreement. Vocals and hand clapping... you want a system that can only do those?
Well miked hand clapping would have <100Hz content, I'd expect. After all- how fast can you clap your hands?
Who said anything about 16hz or infinity?
The fact is that <100Hz is a pretty extreme cutoff to be willing to live with, the vast majority of recordings have FUNDAMENTALS <100hz. You want a vocals and handclaps nonsense rig? Don't call it a "clean" rig, it's just a sideshow, waste of time for those interested in an actual high performance audio system.
Maybe your system isnt good to start with ?
My system has as close as i can get flat response from 40 to 20k and i listen to all types of recording including classic with little content above 100Hz and still sounds fine
Oh Mr Sheen....
We have all heard this kind of amp...nowadays, 10 seconds and I'm driven out of the room.
Dan.
Usually means false embellishment of transients...iow transient unstable behaviour.
We have all heard this kind of amp...nowadays, 10 seconds and I'm driven out of the room.
Dan.