Can't see how the schematic doesn't make sense!
There's nothing there that really stands out as a source of hum. Preamp tubes and phase splitter have DC heaters with a single supply shared (I assume) across two monoblocks.
I'd be looking more at the placement, shielding and orientation of the transformers.
There's nothing there that really stands out as a source of hum. Preamp tubes and phase splitter have DC heaters with a single supply shared (I assume) across two monoblocks.
I'd be looking more at the placement, shielding and orientation of the transformers.
in my amp builds i locate the input jacks as far away from any traffos as i can get away with....though some find it ugly....
I had a friend over to the house tonight to hear my system. He's heard a lot of tube amps in his time.
"That's nothing.", he said. "Forget about it."
"That's nothing.", he said. "Forget about it."
i saw a schematic where chokes were used between minus poles of capacitors (last cap minus was also GND point), plus pins were just connected together
this way, choke will stay at zero potential🙂
I suspect that the other noises being heard (other than hum) could well be due to some RF instability. Unless the layout and circuit has been altered in this area, I would say that the grid stopper resistors (R9 and R10) are in the wrong place. Firstly they are on the PCB and really should be as close to the tube socket as possible. Second, they should be between the grid bias resistor and the tube, rather than having both the bias and stopper resistors joined to the tube. Having the two components on a tracked PCB connecting to the grid on the tube rather than just a single directly wired resistor significantly reduces the effectiveness of the grid stopper.
So, to try this - remove R9 and R10. Replace each with a very short insulated wire. Then connect the removed resistors in place of the blue wires that connect from the PCBs to pin 5 on the EL34 tube sockets. It should not make anything worse, and it may very well help. You should, of course, apply the modification to both channels - doing just one may be tempting but if there is a problem here, if one channel is still unstable it could also affect the other.
It will not cost anything to try this, and if the current draw is more stable it may also lessen the need to tweak the power supply.
So, to try this - remove R9 and R10. Replace each with a very short insulated wire. Then connect the removed resistors in place of the blue wires that connect from the PCBs to pin 5 on the EL34 tube sockets. It should not make anything worse, and it may very well help. You should, of course, apply the modification to both channels - doing just one may be tempting but if there is a problem here, if one channel is still unstable it could also affect the other.
It will not cost anything to try this, and if the current draw is more stable it may also lessen the need to tweak the power supply.
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See if you have room to enlarge C12. Something like this:
ESMH100VSN473MQ50T United Chemi-Con | 565-2601-ND | DigiKey
48000uF @10v might fit right in there.....could lower your humm a lot for $5.
ESMH100VSN473MQ50T United Chemi-Con | 565-2601-ND | DigiKey
48000uF @10v might fit right in there.....could lower your humm a lot for $5.
Thanks a lot guys!
I love to tweaak things, and any reason to heat up the iron is reason for me to get excited. Sounds trivial, perhaps, but it is so much fun for me. 🙂
I love to tweaak things, and any reason to heat up the iron is reason for me to get excited. Sounds trivial, perhaps, but it is so much fun for me. 🙂
Update
I turned the amp on this morning and after about 2 minutes of listening I started getting considerable buzz-crackle in the left channel, with corresponding drop in music volume. Right away I knew this must be a bad solder joint related to my capacitor upgrade.
I was right. I reflowed the left channel cap joints and bingo, fixed.i
A side effect is that the intermittent buzz-sizzle seems to have been eliminated. I'm guessing that was the issue all along.
Might look at upgrading C12 and re-arranging R9 and R10 connections at a later date. Just happy to have it running right. Got my solder fix for the day. 🙂
Note: I figure it worked perfectly last night for the listening session with my friend because it had been on all day so it was nice and hot. Overnight it cooled and the solder joint returned to its default dodginess.
I turned the amp on this morning and after about 2 minutes of listening I started getting considerable buzz-crackle in the left channel, with corresponding drop in music volume. Right away I knew this must be a bad solder joint related to my capacitor upgrade.
I was right. I reflowed the left channel cap joints and bingo, fixed.i
A side effect is that the intermittent buzz-sizzle seems to have been eliminated. I'm guessing that was the issue all along.
Might look at upgrading C12 and re-arranging R9 and R10 connections at a later date. Just happy to have it running right. Got my solder fix for the day. 🙂
Note: I figure it worked perfectly last night for the listening session with my friend because it had been on all day so it was nice and hot. Overnight it cooled and the solder joint returned to its default dodginess.
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The Chinese amps I've worked on had that crappy lead free solder. When you use leaded solder you need to remove all the lead free crap. They have different melting points which causes cold solder joints and the situation you mentioned. I'd go back to all the solder joints you touched and give them a touch up at least. Last time I had to work on one with lead free solder I just broke down and removed all that lead free solder and replaced it with leaded silver. Every one of those lead free solder joints looks suspicious to me, probably the way that stuff is supposed to look like but I cant get used to the look not shiny and actually the solder looks like it needs more heat.
Cheers,
Bob
Update: I was wrong. It isn't fixed 🙁
3 times now I have gone under the hood to reflow solder joints in the left channel and I am beginning to get pretty frustrated. The symptoms are now very consistent:
1) When I first turn the amp on both channels work fine
2) Some time within the first five minutes or so, the left channel begins intermittently dropping out partially and there is obvious distortion or "scratchiness"
3) This continues on and off over the next 20 to 30 minutes, and finally it settles down and starts to function normally again
I could solve the problem by simply turning the amp on 30 minutes before using it (as many people do religiously) however I would much rather solve this issue as I suspect it will just get worse over time.
What are the usual suspects, based on the symptoms? Solder joints? Socket contacts? Tube pins?
Seems obvious that it is temperature related, so "some connection" is dodgy enough to be affected by heat expansion only at a certain temperature range...
3 times now I have gone under the hood to reflow solder joints in the left channel and I am beginning to get pretty frustrated. The symptoms are now very consistent:
1) When I first turn the amp on both channels work fine
2) Some time within the first five minutes or so, the left channel begins intermittently dropping out partially and there is obvious distortion or "scratchiness"
3) This continues on and off over the next 20 to 30 minutes, and finally it settles down and starts to function normally again
I could solve the problem by simply turning the amp on 30 minutes before using it (as many people do religiously) however I would much rather solve this issue as I suspect it will just get worse over time.
What are the usual suspects, based on the symptoms? Solder joints? Socket contacts? Tube pins?
Seems obvious that it is temperature related, so "some connection" is dodgy enough to be affected by heat expansion only at a certain temperature range...
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'Reflowing' solder joints is a quick way to ruin them, especially if you are mixing leaded and lead-free solder. You may now need to de-solder and properly re-solder all the joints you have touched.
This is a common fault with amps which have been 'upgraded'.
This is a common fault with amps which have been 'upgraded'.
Gently wiggle the tubes in their sockets. You may discover the offending tube/socket this way, as the noise will either get worse, or completely disappear. Use a clean rag or glove for the obvious reasons.
jeff
Will do. Thanks.
By the way, what is the best and/or most cost-effective way to clean tube pins?
You can use Isopropanol, methyl hydrate, or something similar that doesn't leave a residue. Or Deoxit if you have some.
jeff
Great! I will try 99% isopropanol first and if I am not satisfied I will try to find the Deoxit. Thanks!
FIxed It! (fingers crossed)
Well, I tried lots of things tonight. Cleaned tube pins, tweaked sockets, removed and replaced solder joints on C3.
No luck.
However, I realized that one of C3's PCB pads was really unhealthy; missing the topside pad completely in fact. I also realized the R4 had one dodgy looking solder joint, which happened to be a direct connection to C3. Too much heat and messing around had rendered these connections basically useless. Lesson learned.
I sat down with the schematic, and after a few minutes it dawned on me; I could remove R4 from the board, bridge it between pin 2 and pin 7 of the 12AU7 socket, and then solder the C3 lead directly to pin 2. The solder connections on the board were the issue, I knew that much, so I took the board out of the equation by going point to point.
I verified my theory of all the connections with my multimeter and it all checked out, so I proceeded.
It worked!
The final test will be during warm up in the morning, but I am pretty confident at this point. There was not a hint of a problem at all tonight. In fact, I think the left channel actually sounds better than the right now. I might do the same thing to the right channel!
Well, I tried lots of things tonight. Cleaned tube pins, tweaked sockets, removed and replaced solder joints on C3.
No luck.
However, I realized that one of C3's PCB pads was really unhealthy; missing the topside pad completely in fact. I also realized the R4 had one dodgy looking solder joint, which happened to be a direct connection to C3. Too much heat and messing around had rendered these connections basically useless. Lesson learned.
I sat down with the schematic, and after a few minutes it dawned on me; I could remove R4 from the board, bridge it between pin 2 and pin 7 of the 12AU7 socket, and then solder the C3 lead directly to pin 2. The solder connections on the board were the issue, I knew that much, so I took the board out of the equation by going point to point.
I verified my theory of all the connections with my multimeter and it all checked out, so I proceeded.
It worked!
The final test will be during warm up in the morning, but I am pretty confident at this point. There was not a hint of a problem at all tonight. In fact, I think the left channel actually sounds better than the right now. I might do the same thing to the right channel!
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Confirmed Fixed!
This morning's warm-up and listening session confirms it; I have finally fixed the issue!
The original questions about chokes are basically irrelevant, of course, but thanks to all who have steered me in the right direction and offered advice!
This morning's warm-up and listening session confirms it; I have finally fixed the issue!
The original questions about chokes are basically irrelevant, of course, but thanks to all who have steered me in the right direction and offered advice!
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