Ugh, Bond........Totally lost interest when I discovered that they rejected Sir Ranulph Fiennes for the part back in the day.
He might have the face and hands of a turnip farmer, but the guy was just out of service with the SAS, renowned for blowing things up AND driving like a head case.
The only thing about Bond now is how much money the film makers can wrench from you pocket.
Tip: There's an American Dad ep called Tear Jerker - Steve (the son) plays 'M' and gives Bond (played by Stan, the father) 3 devices that inflate any woman's breasts to 3x their usual size. It also doesn't have Adele singing an average song for cash.
*on topic*
Didn't know those horns at BigEars had been round that long JKRO, though I visit Newquay on a regular basis, I've never got round to phoning and going to see what's what - Will do soon as I want to hear EmKens fed by valves. Altecs Not my cuppa-T as I'd have to knock through into next door or build a REALLY BIG speaker system for gf's place (says he who is toying with the idea of 'Half' Imperials (pair of!)).......mind you, give me an hour with one and I'm certain I could have enough info / measures to make my own pair.
There is also a thread on how to design/make multi-cell horns here abouts.
He might have the face and hands of a turnip farmer, but the guy was just out of service with the SAS, renowned for blowing things up AND driving like a head case.
The only thing about Bond now is how much money the film makers can wrench from you pocket.
Tip: There's an American Dad ep called Tear Jerker - Steve (the son) plays 'M' and gives Bond (played by Stan, the father) 3 devices that inflate any woman's breasts to 3x their usual size. It also doesn't have Adele singing an average song for cash.
*on topic*
Didn't know those horns at BigEars had been round that long JKRO, though I visit Newquay on a regular basis, I've never got round to phoning and going to see what's what - Will do soon as I want to hear EmKens fed by valves. Altecs Not my cuppa-T as I'd have to knock through into next door or build a REALLY BIG speaker system for gf's place (says he who is toying with the idea of 'Half' Imperials (pair of!)).......mind you, give me an hour with one and I'm certain I could have enough info / measures to make my own pair.
There is also a thread on how to design/make multi-cell horns here abouts.
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To all you multicellular owners - been doing some reading (http://www.pispeakers.com/Pi_Speakers_Info.pdf for example) and some suggest that multicellular became outmoded mainly because of fabrication costs/skills but that it beamed in the midrange (100hk-1khz?). I also read somewhere that the cells can vary sometimes up to 10dB in output! Then came radial designs then to constant directivity enroute to audio panacea.
As I understand multicellular designs they produce multiple wavefronts to disperse the sound over a wide area and like all horns beam at higher freq.
Are the more modern designs 'better' or do they just claim to solve the older horn issues whilst having other issues of their own?
For the multicell's is it more cells for nearer listening as thy tend to have a wider spread, smaller horn. for example would I be better off with the 15cell version than the 8cell in my room? they seem to have identical cell mouth sizes......
As I understand multicellular designs they produce multiple wavefronts to disperse the sound over a wide area and like all horns beam at higher freq.
Are the more modern designs 'better' or do they just claim to solve the older horn issues whilst having other issues of their own?
For the multicell's is it more cells for nearer listening as thy tend to have a wider spread, smaller horn. for example would I be better off with the 15cell version than the 8cell in my room? they seem to have identical cell mouth sizes......
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haha just found this little item. Makes my plans, um, diddy
Norelco ad from Audio magazine March 1958 - Practically new ranch house with 200-foot poured-concrete, spirally curled, exponential, bass horn; 12-foot multicellular midrange horn (24 cells); large inventory of assorted dynamic and electrostatic tweeters; three 2000-watt water-cooled amplifiers; infinite-attenuation electronic crossover networks; master control-mixer-preamplifier console; two 1,500-lb. belt driven turntables suspended in mercury bath; vacuum sealed record-positioning chamber with servo controlled record lifters and nuclear-reactor record deionizer; foam-rubber basement for acoustical feedback isolation; also complete blueprints for construction of identical house for stereo 😀😀:
Norelco ad from Audio magazine March 1958 - Practically new ranch house with 200-foot poured-concrete, spirally curled, exponential, bass horn; 12-foot multicellular midrange horn (24 cells); large inventory of assorted dynamic and electrostatic tweeters; three 2000-watt water-cooled amplifiers; infinite-attenuation electronic crossover networks; master control-mixer-preamplifier console; two 1,500-lb. belt driven turntables suspended in mercury bath; vacuum sealed record-positioning chamber with servo controlled record lifters and nuclear-reactor record deionizer; foam-rubber basement for acoustical feedback isolation; also complete blueprints for construction of identical house for stereo 😀😀:
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Yet they are still extremely popular. JrKO. Woofer option for you. Look into altec 421. considered to have excellent midbass and can be reconed to 416. A very clean pair just sold for $200 bucks on fleabay. If you have jbl over there, look for k140, e140, k145.
no need for ex-lax in that house - mono or not!!!
Tnx for the heads up. There are no UK Altec 421's at the moment. They have savage drop off according to their original response specs. - starting around 200hz and more than 10dB down at 50hz!!! The JBL's were guitar drivers. Theres a set of 4 available here but the guy doesn't know what the re-cone job is as they are non original.
TBH I'm going to stick to modern drivers for a few reasons: I don't have to worry about fixing them up, I don't have to worry about some wally before doing something stupid to them, they come with a guarantee/warrantee & backup, I get 'reasonably' accurate specs compared to +20yr old units with no TS parameters (you cant g'tee a reliable match in 2nd hand units until you measure them and then maybe re-cone BOTH), cost/quality ratio is 'more likely' to be higher as tech gets more advanced & cheaper. I guess all in all I want to worry about the speaker design, not the fact that my drivers come with questionable history, usage, build etc etc
In the US its probably easier as there are FAR more of these JBL & Altec drivers knocking around. For what I'd end up paying for 1 pair of decent Altecs or JBLs is enough to buy 2 pair of brand new 'possibly' better drivers
here. Its just not a financially viable or technically sensible option for me I'm afraid 🙁
On the other hand I get nice new shiny things that only my grubby little paws will have touched 😛
James
Tnx for the heads up. There are no UK Altec 421's at the moment. They have savage drop off according to their original response specs. - starting around 200hz and more than 10dB down at 50hz!!! The JBL's were guitar drivers. Theres a set of 4 available here but the guy doesn't know what the re-cone job is as they are non original.
TBH I'm going to stick to modern drivers for a few reasons: I don't have to worry about fixing them up, I don't have to worry about some wally before doing something stupid to them, they come with a guarantee/warrantee & backup, I get 'reasonably' accurate specs compared to +20yr old units with no TS parameters (you cant g'tee a reliable match in 2nd hand units until you measure them and then maybe re-cone BOTH), cost/quality ratio is 'more likely' to be higher as tech gets more advanced & cheaper. I guess all in all I want to worry about the speaker design, not the fact that my drivers come with questionable history, usage, build etc etc
In the US its probably easier as there are FAR more of these JBL & Altec drivers knocking around. For what I'd end up paying for 1 pair of decent Altecs or JBLs is enough to buy 2 pair of brand new 'possibly' better drivers
here. Its just not a financially viable or technically sensible option for me I'm afraid 🙁
On the other hand I get nice new shiny things that only my grubby little paws will have touched 😛
James
Cants say about cost, but there are a lot of assumption in there. You have to consider the intended design of modern vs older drivers. Nowadays its all about how much power you can get in tiny box. You want light cones, powerful magnets, and low LE.
You made me laugh there buzz!! Assumption? No, not really mate. If you think a 30yr old driver of unknown ownership, usage, storage & general history, and where you have to trust the unknown seller, is a safer bet than one fresh from the factory that is a huge assumption.
That or you've unwittingly bought Altek or JDL 😉
Don't get me wrong I like the older drivers, but even if I had the cash for them I'd only buy from GPA brand new, with a guarantee.
As for specs - thats always important. And there have been plenty of big drivers mentioned in this thread that fit all the criteria you just quoted (Faital Pro, 18 Sound, Precision Devices etc etc) straight out of the box with none of the historical issues. Even if 75% of old Altecs are perfect (with no need of work etc), thats still 25 per 100 more than would be a viable business model for a modern manufacturer. With no backup, returns etc etc
As most if not all the Altecs will have been re-coned by now or require it to be somewhere near original spec you buy and then find out what you've got. If I ordered a set of 15inch FP's by all accounts they'd near perfect as described. And I'd have the consumer protection laws, any guarantee offered, telephone support etc etc
That or you've unwittingly bought Altek or JDL 😉
Don't get me wrong I like the older drivers, but even if I had the cash for them I'd only buy from GPA brand new, with a guarantee.
As for specs - thats always important. And there have been plenty of big drivers mentioned in this thread that fit all the criteria you just quoted (Faital Pro, 18 Sound, Precision Devices etc etc) straight out of the box with none of the historical issues. Even if 75% of old Altecs are perfect (with no need of work etc), thats still 25 per 100 more than would be a viable business model for a modern manufacturer. With no backup, returns etc etc
As most if not all the Altecs will have been re-coned by now or require it to be somewhere near original spec you buy and then find out what you've got. If I ordered a set of 15inch FP's by all accounts they'd near perfect as described. And I'd have the consumer protection laws, any guarantee offered, telephone support etc etc
I didn't mean that in the context of new vs old or used drivers, I meant how the new drivers are designed, i.e. with heavy cones and compliant suspensions. They assume big SS power and small boxes. I am not saying that newer isnt safer purchase, but it definitely does not guarantee better sound, even at the highest expense levels.
Ah! okay, my bad! I thought you'd taken leave of your senses after your MEGA Altec shopping spree 😀
And thats what I've learned from this thread. But now I can read Sanskrit (TS parameters) I've found lots. The FP 15FH510 for example: FS 35Hz, Qts 0.27, Mms 108g, BL 21, Vas 6.14cuFt - should knock the stuffing out of most bass systems at forty paces
BTW what sort of number is a 'low' Le figure?
Le is inductance. It is similar to reactance od capacitors. Low Le generally means better performance at higher frequencies. I think that Faital looks good. Very good. For reference, the 515 has mms of 50g, the AE TD15m 60g. I should probably get a Faital and compare to see how old compares to new. How's the car ordeal?
Have you looked at the 15PR400? Lower le, lower mms, would probably need a larger enclosure, but other wise the specs look better to me than the FP 15FH510
and very short Xmax 2-3mm Xmax(one way)
but yeah, could have been a good one
tho, with a tube flea amp, I doubt it will ever get into trouble
but hook it up with a 200watt....big bang
but yeah, could have been a good one
tho, with a tube flea amp, I doubt it will ever get into trouble
but hook it up with a 200watt....big bang
As far as I can see mass of cone is not really that important, rather the magnets motive power & strength. A light cone with rubbish magnet is worse than a cone 3 times the weight with a great motor. I guess its a power to weight ratio type thing?
interesting read here Adire Audio tech paper on transient response with input from Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio. I cant find the paper unfortunately
interesting read here Adire Audio tech paper on transient response with input from Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio. I cant find the paper unfortunately
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Without doubt. Consider though, a light cone and a strong magnet. The Faitals and Beyma drivers look best from current selection. I would of course inlcude the AE drivers in there as well.
More cells = more better, in my book. At least for typical domestic listening.
Given the choice between multi-cell and "One Hole" horns, I've made my choice. 🙂
That's a classic, love it. Laugh if you will, but a buddy of mine showed me photos of a house in Crete he visited that was just about that bad. All horns, with the bass horns extending way out into the garden. Crazy inside, with the giant horn mouths.
Somewhat more restrained is this famous system.
Pano,
Would you expect somewhat similar performance from the wooden iwata forns with fins in the mouth?
Would you expect somewhat similar performance from the wooden iwata forns with fins in the mouth?
Well I was thinking that the theory of operatin should be the same. Basically an attempt to prevent beaming of HF signal, intentitonally creating HF lobing.
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