8" - 10" driver...looking for opinions...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jump to Latest
sideways

sideways

Member
Joined 2007
#1
Greetings!!

I am looking for a driver capable of hitting mid 30's cleanly that can go in a 20L sealed cabinet...ideas??

I've done a lot of reading on here but nothing conclusive has come out of it so I thought I would ask!!

Thanks kindly to all who respond...greatly appreciated!!
 
#5
Chris661...good read...thanks!!

So maybe I might have to go to a 12" or a 15"??

I do have a set of Eminence Beta 12CX's kicking around but I doubt they will get me that low in a sealed cabinet...

See...I want to incorporate something into a tower build...open baffle tweeter...possibly an open baffle midbass driver or seal that too...
 
#7
sideways said:
Chris661...good read...thanks!!

So maybe I might have to go to a 12" or a 15"??

I do have a set of Eminence Beta 12CX's kicking around but I doubt they will get me that low in a sealed cabinet...

See...I want to incorporate something into a tower build...open baffle tweeter...possibly an open baffle midbass driver or seal that too...
Click to expand...

It rather depends.

For a while, I used a pair of 8" drivers in a sealed cabinet, and added ~14dB boost to get to 28Hz.
They weren't particularly high quality drivers (the 3mm Xmax was a giveaway in hindsight), but at reasonable-to-quite-loud levels, went plenty low enough.

They fell down when it came to movies played at movie levels: they bottomed out several times during the Dark Knight.
IMHO, for a compact sealed subwoofer, don't try to eq below 40Hz. Below that, excursion and power requirements become silly. 35Hz with a low Q (~0.5) would be okay, but add an infrasonic filter to stop the cones flapping around.


The PA drivers you mention won't be of much use here...

PA drivers are designed primarily for high output, with limited low end. They use lightweight cones and short-throw motors (where almost all the coil is in the magnetic gap, no overhang: efficiency improves but Xmax is small).
Remember at this point that most PA systems consist of a woofer and a tweeter in a smallish ported cabinet, driven by an amplifier. Below port tuning, the woofers unload (there's nothing holding the cones still, so they're free to flap around), and the operator perceives this as running out of bass.
No problem: turn up the low end on a graphic eq, tone controls, whatever.
So now you have a speaker that's mechanically unloaded, with excess LF power being fed into it to make up for the cabinet rolloff.

Any HiFi speaker would give up at this point and the voice coil would start smacking into various other parts of the speaker. PA speakers don't: they employ suspensions that are very non-linear.
A linear suspension means low distortion (perfect for HiFi), but of course if the user isn't careful, you risk mechanical damage. That's alright though - most HiFi speakers aren't pushed near their limits.
So, these non-linear suspensions mean, once the excursion starts, there's also increasing amounts of distortion. This is of little consequence to most people listening to the PA system as the sound will remain more-or-less intelligible (some people like the added harmonics, but that's irrelevant). Point is you'll never bottom them out, which will badly screw up the sound (and the audience will notice).

Thing is, if your subwoofer suddenly starts adding lots of harmonics to the sound, it'll immediately draw attention to itself, which is the opposite of what you want: subwoofers shouldn't noticably add to the sound, but you should be able to tell if someone switches it off.
The harmonics would also mean you'd be able to locate the subwoofer in the room. If the subwoofer's between the front two speakers, not so bad. If it's off to one side somewhere, you've got a problem.


Okay, so you need a dedicated (sub) woofer. If you're using two of them, decent 8"s will probably suffice, but if the 10"s aren't much more expensive, I'd be inclined to go with those.

What's your budget?

Chris
 
#8
Hey Chris

So I guess I should mention...these are for music only...no movies...I just need them to be able to fill in a bit...

I'm running 2 Velodynes right now...mid 30's...fine enough but real estate dictates I need to scale down somewhat LOL!!!

So I figured if I could incorporate them into a tower build I would be a bit further ahead!!

Another thing...those subs are vented...what are the chances I could pull the drivers out and use them in a sealed cabinet??
 
#10
sideways said:
Hey Chris

So I guess I should mention...these are for music only...no movies...I just need them to be able to fill in a bit...

I'm running 2 Velodynes right now...mid 30's...fine enough but real estate dictates I need to scale down somewhat LOL!!!

So I figured if I could incorporate them into a tower build I would be a bit further ahead!!

Another thing...those subs are vented...what are the chances I could pull the drivers out and use them in a sealed cabinet??
Click to expand...

If they're only needed to fill the sound out a little, 40Hz will be okay.

You could pull the drivers and put them in sealed cabinets. Ideally, you'd have the thiele-small parameters for them (perhaps you can get them measured?) so you can simulate and figure out the right specs for a Linkwitz Transform. You might find them okay without any LF boost, but there's no guarantee there. To get an idea of what you'll end up with, disconnect the internal amplifier, connect a different amplifier to the speaker (run the wire through the port) block up the ports (I use socks/scarves for this), and add something solid inside until the cabinet volume is ~20L. Have a listen. If you have some form of eq to hand (eg, Foobar2000), you could play with that until you're happy with the bass.

With some care, you could probably use the subwoofer plate amps too. Problem is that the manufacturer may have added eq in the plate amp for that driver in a ported box, so this would have to be bypassed or results would be unpredictable at best.

Chris
 
#12
chris661 said:
Any driver can hit those frequencies in a sealed box. How loud it'll be is another thing entirely, but I will say this: unless the box is really really tiny, Xmax will become a problem first.

ESP - The Linkwitz Transform Circuit
Click to expand...

Rod Elliott is always a good read. I took his advice and used a low Fs long throw 15" woofer in a smallish sealed box, then EQed it ("Linkwitz Transform" via my DCX2496) for flat response to 20Hz. Without EQ the -3dB point is about 33Hz, so it takes a bit of boost to reach 20Hz. Works like a champ.
 
#13
I looked at that Dayton...seems impressive!!

So...more info...I run a DEQX...so with measurement and with it's parametric EQ function, I can do whatever I want to with whatever driver I wish...I'm still learning all there is to know about it and it's been 8 months that I've had it LOL!!1
 
#14
sideways said:
I looked at that Dayton...seems impressive!!

So...more info...I run a DEQX...so with measurement and with it's parametric EQ function, I can do whatever I want to with whatever driver I wish...I'm still learning all there is to know about it and it's been 8 months that I've had it LOL!!1
Click to expand...
Yes, but you should still plug the drivers t/s specs into a simulation program such as WinISD to help predict when(power-/-freq-/-boost) you will run out of xmax on a given driver.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom