UFOs, Black Projects, Shadow Goverments ETC.

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#61
PlasticIsGood said:
Maybe the cosmos doesn't get to be very clever this time.
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Thats an interesting point of view..

If the universe is a heaving mass of destruction and creation..Then not only do we have to overcome the "End of the World" but also the end of everything.. guess the saying we are all gods in the making comes to mind.

The point that evolution is directly linked to survival..ie if we don't survive we can't evolve..So the ability to survive has to be high on the list of requirements for any species that has become intelligent and possibly any life that could reach us..

When I look now at the world it makes me think that we are so wrapped up in living we can't see the point of it..Life without purpose will not survive long in the universe..The fact that no mission to mars has happened yet is very sad...how long does it take to terraform a planet?

I guess the idea from Dune comes to mind "the sleeper must awaken"..
Its interesting we seem to advance when threatened with extinction..
There seems to be money for everything except the important things.

Ode to the great machine

"life is not important" unless its your own seems to come to mind.
Then when we are alone we seek comfort from others..then some turn to animals..the silent friend.
How many would want to live on another planet with no other "person or friend"..The last man on earth would still be on earth...but the last man in space..into the void?

Regards
M. Gregg
 
#63
M Gregg said:
LOL,

You have to admit it is strange that on earth the humans are way above all other species..there is no middle ground, like a species that is half way between us and the next level...no other species along side us like bird or reptile that can talk..its like we have been dropped from the sky onto a different planet..and put in fast forward while all else crawls along..😕

Regards
M. Gregg
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Way above?

Nah.

To paraphrase Douglas Adams...
Humanity thinks its superior because they've achieved computers, wars, aeroplanes etc, while all dolphins have done is frolick in the water having a good time. Dolphins think they themselves are superior, for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps the simple life is best.

Chris
 
#64
popilin said:
You mean, that you know it?

Explain it to me please, with math, you're talking about physics, not philosophy.

I belong to the general public, and I'd like to learn.😉
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Why do people always try to reiterate your words into a context that they weren't meant for.

Yes you are the general public, but by that I mean someone who has no idea about anything relating to physics beyond what they were taught in high school and then they've forgotten most of it. You mention the name 'Dark Matter' to them and it means something beyond just its name, but almost certainly it will be something fictitious. To me all it means is something else we've given a name to, it is nothing special, but people tend to view it differently just because of its name.

Maybe we will never be able to explain what dark mater or dark energy are, but historically we've done pretty well with these things. I am sure that we will at least be able to explain the reasons why they were invented in the first place, even if they turn out to have only been a product of our now flawed understanding.
 
#65
5th element said:
Why do people always try to reiterate your words into a context that they weren't meant for.
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Because you talk like you belong to Theoretical Physics Division at CERN.

5th element said:
Yes, but you're saying this as if it's some kind of bad thing. If they were called 'oblique angled filament particles' and 'reverse expansion energy' then we wouldn't be here. No one goes on endlessly about the Higgs Boson as some kind of euphemism for 'we don't know', but if it was called the Dark particle people would probably view it in a different way.
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You see?:smash:

5th element said:
Yes you are the general public, but by that I mean someone who has no idea about anything relating to physics beyond what they were taught in high school and then they've forgotten most of it. You mention the name 'Dark Matter' to them and it means something beyond just its name, but almost certainly it will be something fictitious. To me all it means is something else we've given a name to, it is nothing special, but people tend to view it differently just because of its name.
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That's right, I am the general public, I'm just a TV repairman.😀

5th element said:
Maybe we will never be able to explain what dark mater or dark energy are, but historically we've done pretty well with these things. I am sure that we will at least be able to explain the reasons why they were invented in the first place, even if they turn out to have only been a product of our now flawed understanding.
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we........🙄
So, if you can't explain it to me, humbly ask you, leave things here, and not ruin my jokes, it is impolite. 🙂
 
#68
chris661 said:
Way above?

Nah.

To paraphrase Douglas Adams...
Humanity thinks its superior because they've achieved computers, wars, aeroplanes etc, while all dolphins have done is frolick in the water having a good time. Dolphins think they themselves are superior, for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps the simple life is best.

Chris
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Ridicule is propaganda. Dolphins want hospitals and wire cutters, and they're running out of food so a fish shop would be handy.

The simple life is usually short and painful. An Inuit, asked by a concerned reporter whether he was upset that the arriving oil industry was messing up his pristine corner of tundra, said that he was cold and miserable, and quite fancied a job as a reporter, with a New York penthouse apartment c/w large screen TV.

The idea that knowledge is evil goes back a very long way because it has been a useful device. The "eating from the tree of knowledge" garden of eden thing is a prime example. Also the erroneous notion of the "noble savage" that is still prevalent.

Same thing happens in audio. As long as you were totally ignorant, the music was good. A bit of knowledge broke the illusion and you ended up listening to noise and distortion for years until finally you knew everything and your system became a perfect organic whole. Only then could you listen to the music again in peace. Don't you sometimes curse the day you first learned something?

Generally civililsation does what it needs to do in the circumstances. Along the way it learns to make better decisions. Currently it's hung up on the problem of large-scale integration, which seems necessary for the further progress of social evolution, because there's no point in making decisions unless it can ensure that they are carried out. Angela Merkel says so. Rather more successfully, so does Hu Jintao.
 
#70
PlasticIsGood said:
Same thing happens in audio. As long as you were totally ignorant, the music was good. A bit of knowledge broke the illusion and you ended up listening to noise and distortion for years until finally you knew everything and your system became a perfect organic whole. Only then could you listen to the music again in peace. Don't you sometimes curse the day you first learned something?.
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Absolutely not. Though I have some very good diy kit, most of my music listening is done at work on a £15 DAB radio. I just enjoy the tunes.
 
#72
Wavebourn said:
When my computer plays something I assume it is a musical instrument. It helps. 🙂

I envy PlasticIsGood, I never heard reproduction without distortions. Even best Hi-end setups can't fool imagination forever.
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My computer and fridge possibly think they are singing in harmony 🙁

I'm sure I have distortions. I got carried away with the perfection thing, for the sake of the parable. If I'm ever totally knowledgeable about and satisfied with my audio experience, I expect the horsemen of the apocalypse will arrive 😱
 
#73
About a year ago, I did a back of the napkin calculation of the possible time difference between the appearance of our life here on earth and its subsequent development, and the probable appearance of the first stable life in the universe. I used conservative assumptions about the date of the big bang (an assumption in itself), the first emergence of the first generation of stars, the emergence of planetary life after that, the development of that life to our level of evolutionary development, etc. etc. From that calculation, I derived a very conservative estimate that human-level development appeared no fewer than 5 billion years before ours (the actual number, IIRC, was 8B, which I summarily reduced to 5B to stay well within tolerable error).

With that estimate, perform the following thought experiment: consider the development of science in the last 200 years and add 5B years to that development. The result is an unimaginable (to us) scientific-technical expertise. FWIW, I personally have no doubt the universe is teeming with life.
 
#77
I can't remember the details, but take the age of the universe or the current cycle of which (14B years thereabouts), factor enough time for the development of the first generation of stars, allow time for some of those stars blow up then circle other stars as planets, factor time for life to develop to our level on some of those planets ... that gets you the 5-8B year figure.

The question of an accurate estimate is really quite moot imo. If 5B years is conservative, scale that back to even 1B years. Add 1B years to our current science. *Completely-totally-unimaginable.*
 
#79
Such engineering is probable in my mind---highly developed life is not building Ford Edsels---but the assumption is not required to obtain a several billion year gap between our life and the most developed probable life elsewhere in the universe. My 2¢ on that particular issue.
 
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