I have recently replaced a tweeter in my Rogers LS55 (Floorstanders)
When I had the speakers apart, I noticed two things, firstly the cabinet construction was very poor, in fact very very poor and secondly the cable used internally appeared to be very cheap and thin !
I was thinking of re-wiring the speakers, with either QED XT Evolution or Van Damme Blue 2.5mm, the speakers are currently bi-wired using Van Damme Blue 4.0mm
Will it be worth my while or should I just stick with how it is was manufactured ?
When I had the speakers apart, I noticed two things, firstly the cabinet construction was very poor, in fact very very poor and secondly the cable used internally appeared to be very cheap and thin !
I was thinking of re-wiring the speakers, with either QED XT Evolution or Van Damme Blue 2.5mm, the speakers are currently bi-wired using Van Damme Blue 4.0mm
Will it be worth my while or should I just stick with how it is was manufactured ?
There are differences in speaker wire, but not the kinds of difference that can make a speaker sound good or bad. It's possible to go to extremes with wire to create a difference but the important thing inside the speaker is the integrity of the wiring.
I would suggest cleaning (de-oxidising) your connections. Bad connectors can make an audible difference.
I would suggest cleaning (de-oxidising) your connections. Bad connectors can make an audible difference.
Speaker wire can make a difference... it is system dependent. There is a lot of speaker wire that is snake oil and companies that talk a good line so it is almost impossible for mear mortals to sift thru ir all.
Thin is not necessarily a bad thing. I use 24g solid copper wire for the insides of my speakers (2 strands pulled from a CAT5 cable). And for my speaker cables. I'd be very surprised if they sounded the same as the 12g cables guys make out of extension cords. In my system the skinny wie worksbetter.
dave
Thin is not necessarily a bad thing. I use 24g solid copper wire for the insides of my speakers (2 strands pulled from a CAT5 cable). And for my speaker cables. I'd be very surprised if they sounded the same as the 12g cables guys make out of extension cords. In my system the skinny wie worksbetter.
dave
Indeed , if you look at the size of the wire wrapped around the voice coil , it's very thin ( static ) but it can withstand many amperes (dynamic ) .
There are some discussions about the two jumpers for biwiring : also those are to be substituted -for real !! From this point ...also the binding posts ,which are cheap metal;
Also the crossover , should be located outside , for many reasons . First is resonances
( mechanical ) that interfere with the electrical---elettro-magnetic ; also the coil in the lowpass should be put near the amplifier ,not the speaker ; at this point ( 2 ! ), wires should have the less resistance as possible ..
There are some discussions about the two jumpers for biwiring : also those are to be substituted -for real !! From this point ...also the binding posts ,which are cheap metal;
Also the crossover , should be located outside , for many reasons . First is resonances
( mechanical ) that interfere with the electrical---elettro-magnetic ; also the coil in the lowpass should be put near the amplifier ,not the speaker ; at this point ( 2 ! ), wires should have the less resistance as possible ..
I expect coconuts 500 will agree with me, but exotic cables just have huge inductance, often by widely spacing the conductors, which makes tonal differences to the high end. But inductance is bad overall. Resistance of regular cables is negligable anyway.
Simple 42 X 0.2mm stuff will do fine:
Heavy Duty Loudspeaker Cable : Speaker Cable : Maplin Electronics
Hard soldering the cables is much better than clip-on connectors. I like these audio grade polypropylene capacitors to replace non-polar electrolytics in the tweeter crossover too:
Audio-Grade Polypropylene Axial Capacitors : Polypropylene : Maplin Electronics
You can have fun with a Zobel network on the tweeter to correct impedance, if you can find out the inductance and resistance somewhere. Sounds very smooth, you use something like 7W or 10W wirewound along with a capacitor:
Impedance Equalization (L-Pad) Circuit Designer / Calculator
I guess cabinet bracing is cheap entertainment too. 🙂
Simple 42 X 0.2mm stuff will do fine:
Heavy Duty Loudspeaker Cable : Speaker Cable : Maplin Electronics
Hard soldering the cables is much better than clip-on connectors. I like these audio grade polypropylene capacitors to replace non-polar electrolytics in the tweeter crossover too:
Audio-Grade Polypropylene Axial Capacitors : Polypropylene : Maplin Electronics
You can have fun with a Zobel network on the tweeter to correct impedance, if you can find out the inductance and resistance somewhere. Sounds very smooth, you use something like 7W or 10W wirewound along with a capacitor:
Impedance Equalization (L-Pad) Circuit Designer / Calculator
I guess cabinet bracing is cheap entertainment too. 🙂
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Ah, yes. Cheap ALCAP blue non-polars fitted on what looks like 2nd order filters! They could be replaced for sure, especially since this is an 15-y-o speaker.
The photo shows a Rogers LS55 crossover after polyesters are fitted, though I'd prefer the polyproylenes. Can't be very big values. Probably around 4uF.
The photo shows a Rogers LS55 crossover after polyesters are fitted, though I'd prefer the polyproylenes. Can't be very big values. Probably around 4uF.
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Why don't you build some lovely new wooden cabinets for them? Well braced, and to the same dimensions as existing. Possibly upgrade the capacitors as well. You obviously like the sound of these, so these suggestions would only improve them (not change the character). This may be difficult if you don't have access to reasonable woodworking gear. DIY cabs can be beautiful. This was my first effort:
Upgrading the internal wiring can't hurt. It may help you sleep better.
Upgrading the internal wiring can't hurt. It may help you sleep better.
Thicker wire not a scam.
I don't feel it is a total scam as thicker cables have a lower resistance therefore they allow more current to flow which is especially good for the bass. Also using silver and Gold which both have a lower resistance for equal length of copper will have the same effect. Also using multi stranded cable especially if each strand is insulated from each other helps fighting the skin effect at higher frequencies. At higher frequencies current tends to travel on the outer part of a conductor. The difference will be there however small or big.
I don't feel it is a total scam as thicker cables have a lower resistance therefore they allow more current to flow which is especially good for the bass. Also using silver and Gold which both have a lower resistance for equal length of copper will have the same effect. Also using multi stranded cable especially if each strand is insulated from each other helps fighting the skin effect at higher frequencies. At higher frequencies current tends to travel on the outer part of a conductor. The difference will be there however small or big.
coconuts 500 did not use the word "thicker", where did you pull it from?
And he seems to be referring to the whole "Industry" built around "Audio cable" exxagerated claims which allow for $1000 cables which perform not better than heavy house wiring cable.
Scam is a good word to describe it, but of course Dictionaries offer synonyms, pick your own.
And he seems to be referring to the whole "Industry" built around "Audio cable" exxagerated claims which allow for $1000 cables which perform not better than heavy house wiring cable.
Scam is a good word to describe it, but of course Dictionaries offer synonyms, pick your own.
Coconut500 wrote that the 'whole' speaker wire thing was a scam so that would include all the differences in wires such as their thickness, quality of conductor etc. I just wanted to point out that in scientific theory there was some real differences in wire however small. I do agree the audio cable industry has greatly exaggerated their claims to make huge profits from vulnerable audiophiles however in certain circumstances people can benefit using better speaker cables such as replacing thin speaker wires for more thicker ones for higher powererd systems. By carrying on using the thinner wires they would not only be compromising system performance but would also run the risk of heating the wires up.
He, he... 😀
AudioEngineer, good point.
The scam is that they shave all they can to sell a 2.500$ loudspeaker for 250$ in a supermarket shelf.
Sometimes is just carelessness. Good cables is just another side of the coin and this involves the connections too.
18 gauge silver plated copper. Excellent for loudspeaker internal wiring, Black - Fidelity Components Shop
Low-Inductance DIY Braided Hi-Fi Speaker Cables
DIY Speaker Cables, How To Make Speaker Cables - YouTube
Connections are important too.
Thanks inductor. Yes of course connections are important too very good point.
Thanks inductor. Yes of course connections are important too very good point.
Using heavy house wiring is not good for audio.
BTW if by heavy house wiring cable you mean the cables which have thick single conductors for each wire then those cables will not perform as well as multi stranded cables. The house wiring cable which is commonly used has single conductors for each wire of somewhere between 10AWG and 14AWG. A 14 AWG conductor has a diameter of 1.623 mm and is only 100% efficient at frequencies upto 6.7 KHz and at 17KHz the efficiency falls down to near enough 60%!!!! . For 10AWG conductor the problem would be much worse. The 10AWG conductor has a diameter of 2.59mm and is only 100% efficient at frequencies upto only 2.6 KHz!!! At 17 KHz the efficiency drops down to only around 40%. This would all translate to lower power levels in the upper midrange and treble frequencies. To back up what I have wrote here you can refer to the website below:
American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies and wire strength
BTW if by heavy house wiring cable you mean the cables which have thick single conductors for each wire then those cables will not perform as well as multi stranded cables. The house wiring cable which is commonly used has single conductors for each wire of somewhere between 10AWG and 14AWG. A 14 AWG conductor has a diameter of 1.623 mm and is only 100% efficient at frequencies upto 6.7 KHz and at 17KHz the efficiency falls down to near enough 60%!!!! . For 10AWG conductor the problem would be much worse. The 10AWG conductor has a diameter of 2.59mm and is only 100% efficient at frequencies upto only 2.6 KHz!!! At 17 KHz the efficiency drops down to only around 40%. This would all translate to lower power levels in the upper midrange and treble frequencies. To back up what I have wrote here you can refer to the website below:
American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies and wire strength
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Wire coat hangers have used to demonstrate how ludicrous some of the claims from the cable manufacturers are.
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