When I look at an amplifier which "sells" for 45000 while guessing that it might cost about one tenth (OK a guess but there is some tolerance with that price tag....) I don't think that my opinion is that subjective, but more based on experience and knowledge of market conditions.
We are very much in snake oil territory here.
The manufacturer speculates on the few suckers which are there, but that does not mean that we don't deal with something heavily overpriced.
We are very much in snake oil territory here.
The manufacturer speculates on the few suckers which are there, but that does not mean that we don't deal with something heavily overpriced.
The term "value" is not subjective.
The work of an accountant or company's finance department is not subjective. They deal with numbers.
They calculate exactly how much a product costs, how many they expect to sell, running costs, man hours, raw materials etc. to create a yearly budget.
At the end of the year they go back and do the same thing with the actual numbers to see if they reached or missed their goals and by how much.
There is nothing subjective in that.
Math is not subjective science (at least not low level math like the stuff we're discussing) nor a Democracy, I'm afraid.
So you would buy the Goldmund? If not, why?
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Some have experience enough to not guess but can estimate pretty close what the cost would be to build something similar.
I fundamentally disagree with you Dirk.
Product value is not that difficult to calculate: cost of development, materials, construction, distribution, things like that.
Price can further be determined by thinks like "appeal", reputation, after sales service.
But IMO never there is justification to offer a product for ten times its value; that is mere capitalistic speculation.
Product value is not that difficult to calculate: cost of development, materials, construction, distribution, things like that.
Price can further be determined by thinks like "appeal", reputation, after sales service.
But IMO never there is justification to offer a product for ten times its value; that is mere capitalistic speculation.
I have had many good amps, integrated amps, receivers. The ones I liked the most were:
a) Bryston B60
b) marantz 2238B
c) Luxman R117
d) Acurus dia 100
e) Portal panache
f) Sanyo plus series
if I had to pick the best of them...I would pick the Bryston B60 and Marantz 2238B.
Now I have my diy integrated amp and I am happy as a clam!😉
a) Bryston B60
b) marantz 2238B
c) Luxman R117
d) Acurus dia 100
e) Portal panache
f) Sanyo plus series
if I had to pick the best of them...I would pick the Bryston B60 and Marantz 2238B.
Now I have my diy integrated amp and I am happy as a clam!😉
lanchile, what DIY integrated?
very curious. What did you build and where are the details?
I see that we have a little agreement with the Bryston stuff: I suggested the .5B preamp and the 2BLP power amp when combine became the BP60 AFAIK.
very curious. What did you build and where are the details?
I see that we have a little agreement with the Bryston stuff: I suggested the .5B preamp and the 2BLP power amp when combine became the BP60 AFAIK.
Some have experience enough to not guess but can estimate pretty close what the cost would be to build something similar.
Any value on intellectual property? product development ? marketing? warranty? packaging , dealer/distributor markup...All pretty naive and irrelevant statements to me ... 🙄
You do realize this can be applied to anything , including your Job and it's justification...
🙄
Yes, I realize, and I can tell you that every minute I invest in making amplifier parts can be justified in terms of materials and labour 🙂
There is something called perceived value and applies to all segments of the market. If a very wealthy man perceives that some amplifier/speaker/whatever matches or exceeds his bracket of sophistication, including price, then he will buy it. I always say, if you ask for the price then you cannot afford it.
The same guy who will buy a Bentley will probably own four PASS Xs and four Martin Logan Statement, installed into a room designed for the purpose.
Whether this guy understands what he bought or not is not important, but others will know from comparing the price that he is relatively sophisticated and probably an audiophile of note even though he hardly uses the equipment and does not really like nor appreciate music.
I have done installations exceeding $ 2 Mil with the question whether his friends would appreciate and know what it is that he owns. I replied that one can engrave the price-tag onto the equipment to avoid any confusion.
The same guy who will buy a Bentley will probably own four PASS Xs and four Martin Logan Statement, installed into a room designed for the purpose.
Whether this guy understands what he bought or not is not important, but others will know from comparing the price that he is relatively sophisticated and probably an audiophile of note even though he hardly uses the equipment and does not really like nor appreciate music.
I have done installations exceeding $ 2 Mil with the question whether his friends would appreciate and know what it is that he owns. I replied that one can engrave the price-tag onto the equipment to avoid any confusion.
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I'm sure , regardless of quality and cost , someone on DIY will say it's over priced **it for suckers ...
I'm sure , regardless of quality and cost , someone on DIY will say it's over priced **it for suckers ...
Of course, I know.
The difference is that I can justify, and IMHO a manufacturer offering a 45 grand amp that looks like a 4k5 one will have trouble to do so.... (my 20 cents 🙄).
But in the meantime way off topic, and a pretty useless discussion anyway.
I build the T300 and the M400. The T300 I sold it to my brother in law and the M400 is in my living room playing beautifully! These amps are on top of my list as one of the best I have ever seen and listened to.
2sk1058 2sk2221 irfp9240 mosfet amplifier schematic
Speaking of Goldmund:
Oh... And a lowly Pioneer:
Spot the differences. 😀
Or Theta selling rebadged Oppos... Sure. Not overpriced. 😛
Is it this Goldmund model?
Goldmund - Eidos 20DVD
check out also this site:
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/Goldmund/goldmundizator.html
Goldmund (and most other) actually are still to cheap.
otherwise there would be enough potential of experience and money for develope and design their own DVD loader so as optical pick up include mechanism - like Sakura Systems Pitracer about
Untitled
But obviously there isn't money enough. Therefore is present even in the most expensive dc/dvd equipment cheap standard stuff.
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This thread is fast.
It is depend on the seller, what he offer. Then he think with or pool some trusted user, really trusted user.
Goldmund offering gold, people like the shining of golden piece at his home. Golden clock, lamps, and so.
Wavac selling tubes, huge shining tubes, Halcro selling new sound character, Candy is smart, he know what he sells, some people that hate him keep buying his metal detectors, funny... . Nice coated cable selling catchy cable coat (if cable may be with double talk).
Soulution selling "best sounding amplifier", right? and there are some other best sounding amplifier version, so why it goes to 45k? additional reason : Bonus home appliaces each purchase
.
It is OK, ofcourse, but they need to hear first for that, or soulution could try with more variant, and make people hear their amps.
It is depend on the seller, what he offer. Then he think with or pool some trusted user, really trusted user.
Goldmund offering gold, people like the shining of golden piece at his home. Golden clock, lamps, and so.
Wavac selling tubes, huge shining tubes, Halcro selling new sound character, Candy is smart, he know what he sells, some people that hate him keep buying his metal detectors, funny... . Nice coated cable selling catchy cable coat (if cable may be with double talk).
Soulution selling "best sounding amplifier", right? and there are some other best sounding amplifier version, so why it goes to 45k? additional reason : Bonus home appliaces each purchase
.It is OK, ofcourse, but they need to hear first for that, or soulution could try with more variant, and make people hear their amps.
Youre forgetting one fact here, some of these cheap standard stuff is as good as you can get, it wouldnt help to spend thousands on R&D to find out that the product is already as good as you can get. Just a little can be spent on upgrades to power supplies and quality of passive components, this is the only area where these cheap players have shortcomings.
It doesnt come close to justify prices like 45 000 $, total ripoffs.
Intellectual property even when patents are refused as as the so called intellectual property is public knowledge ??
40 000 $ out of a price of 45 000$ for so called intelectual property, product development, marketing, warranty, packaging ,dealer/distributor markup.
Yeah right
Rich sucker bought a Goldmund, drove an Aston Martin DB7 in the '90s.
Less rich sucker bought B&O design and Bose, drove a Jag XK, almost same car as the Aston, but 1/3d cheaper.
Poor sucker bought Japanese, drove Japanese, but lived to criticise other suckers.
Filthy rich sucker shells out a cool million bucks for a Crestron/Kaleidescape combo, just keeping track of what other filthy rich suckers do consumes lots of time.
The Coca Cola co. spends $3B on advertising and marketing to sell a bottle that costs two dimes to manufacture and fill. (me made first PET coca coke bottles overhere, pre-introduction, around 1980)
Just thinking about Goldmund's advertising and marketing budget makes me lose appetite.
Less rich sucker bought B&O design and Bose, drove a Jag XK, almost same car as the Aston, but 1/3d cheaper.
Poor sucker bought Japanese, drove Japanese, but lived to criticise other suckers.
Filthy rich sucker shells out a cool million bucks for a Crestron/Kaleidescape combo, just keeping track of what other filthy rich suckers do consumes lots of time.
The Coca Cola co. spends $3B on advertising and marketing to sell a bottle that costs two dimes to manufacture and fill. (me made first PET coca coke bottles overhere, pre-introduction, around 1980)
Just thinking about Goldmund's advertising and marketing budget makes me lose appetite.
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To sell something at grossly inflated prices one needs to thoroughly decieve and 🤐, it can get costly as people are getting more aware of these abuses. Seems this is where most of profit from the sales go instead of using it for R&D that could result in better products.
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