Godron most probably was visual thinker, that's why he used visual terminology. We kinestetics use feelings to describe things.
Perhaps simply by a shift in the words used. Is "bright" good or bad? Is "forward" desirable, or not? I'd have to read the reviews to understand context.
EDIT: Hmm.. just had a browse thru a bunch of schematics. All the Marantz looked UL connected, tho one had a triode switch. Dynaco only UL. Do you have model numbers, SY?
But not pentode (bear's contention), that was my point. And again, you have to believe that JGH never listened to a triode amp, which is somewhat north of ridiculous.
Pano, take a look at the Marantz 9. I can probably dig up a schematic for you if you can't easily find one. Switchable from UL to triode, no pentode mode in sight.
Pano, take a look at the Marantz 9. I can probably dig up a schematic for you if you can't easily find one. Switchable from UL to triode, no pentode mode in sight.
Triode operation was used rarely, after about 1960. This was significantly due to the change from relatively efficient speakers to 'bookshelf' speakers that needed all the power that they could get. Ultralinear gave enough power, but with a compromise in the sound.
Just think, I had 2 Dyna Mk 3 amps with matched Genelex KT-88's driving 2 K-horns, AND I was still attempting to design a better solid state amp to replace them. The ONLY tube amp that really knocked my socks off at that time was the Soundcraftsman 15W tube amp, designed by the engineers who would later design the Marantz tube line. I could NOT beat it, sonically, try as I might, for years.
Now, I knew Gordon Holt personally for decades, and even participated in a listening test with him, at one time. He could hear very well, BUT sometimes he liked some components that I could not understand why, such as the Dyna Stereo 120, their first solid stage design, a 'dog' if there ever was, in power amps. Quoting him exclusively does not make any sense, unless you are trying to actually 'dismiss' him, ultimately.
Just think, I had 2 Dyna Mk 3 amps with matched Genelex KT-88's driving 2 K-horns, AND I was still attempting to design a better solid state amp to replace them. The ONLY tube amp that really knocked my socks off at that time was the Soundcraftsman 15W tube amp, designed by the engineers who would later design the Marantz tube line. I could NOT beat it, sonically, try as I might, for years.
Now, I knew Gordon Holt personally for decades, and even participated in a listening test with him, at one time. He could hear very well, BUT sometimes he liked some components that I could not understand why, such as the Dyna Stereo 120, their first solid stage design, a 'dog' if there ever was, in power amps. Quoting him exclusively does not make any sense, unless you are trying to actually 'dismiss' him, ultimately.
Yeah, I've seen it. But when Bear said Pentode - I doubt he was excluding UL mode. Pretty common way to run Pentodes, even if it's not strictly "Pentode Mode." Hard to do UL with Triodes.
It was in 1960'th. Today I use pentodes with regulated by stiff solid stage voltage stabilizer G2 voltages, and with parallel feedback from their anodes to control grids (like inverting connection of opamps, you know), they are more triodish than triodes such a way. Also, when G1 and G2 voltages are stabilized, huge variations of B+ cause low variations of anode currents: much better PSRR than in case of traditional triodes.
UL isn't pentode mode. Totally different transfer functions and output characteristics. Special pleading? Or do we still maintain that Gordon Holt had no experience with triode amps? 😀
Sure, it is what I am talking about. Linearized wideband amp sounds better than less linear that starts rolling off from 100 Hz, with global feedback around resulting in better measured linearity. For example, when I used source follower loaded on modulated CCS, and this source follower is powered from another one bootstrapping it, the result is very linear, but not because transfer function is linearized by feedback. Because variations of voltage between drain and source, and current through it, are minimized. Actually, what I am aiming at, is not linearity, but rather smoothness of transfer function.
@Pano: Not so much, no. I suspect that, if there were indeed a characteristic "tube sound," JGH would have had a pretty good handle on it.
No, he ignores differences in language. Kinestetics, audials, visuals use different languages to describe the same things. That does not mean things are different.
"Bright and forward" was a term that JGH used repeatedly to describe tube sound. Solid state was "laid back." Not much ambiguity.
OK, thanks. What era was this? What were the typical solid state amps?
Did he use "laid back" as a compliment, or not?
Did he use "laid back" as a compliment, or not?
Laid back may mean far away, behind smog. Bright and forward may mean well visible, from close distance.
'60s, '70s. The solid state amps he was talking about were (among others) Crown DC-300, Dynaco ST-120, H-K Citation, but its not hard to find lots of other examples.
"Laid back" was NOT a compliment to him- he made the same complaint about MC cartridges of the era, which notoriously had a swayback upper midrange frequency response.
"Laid back" was NOT a compliment to him- he made the same complaint about MC cartridges of the era, which notoriously had a swayback upper midrange frequency response.
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