Hello
For Alcone the software (optimum) offer 98L & F3 30Hz.
Unfortunately I don't know how to post my sim result.
My enclosure 75L but I can gain 15-20% more with the damping material.
It will be perfect to me.
Greetings Gabor
For Alcone the software (optimum) offer 98L & F3 30Hz.
Unfortunately I don't know how to post my sim result.
My enclosure 75L but I can gain 15-20% more with the damping material.
It will be perfect to me.
Greetings Gabor
Hi Gabor,
I don't think so. Must be a matter of technical detail (technicality). AE Speakers - ex.LAMBDA Drivers - John_E_Janowitz (diyAudio) is a very serious person and businessman with the interest of selling some of the best speakers in the market. In the next couple days we can look at both drivers, as time will permit. First can you elaborate (on the problem you mention), or frequencies that the AE can not reproduce, so that I can validate. Thanks.
Second, on the Alcone, we can check if thats a new version (v.2 or v.2011).
Alcone website Was 100L , Fs28, Qts 0.325 (this is what I have)
Reality Was 93L, Fs31, Qts 0.41 (do you have a spec sheet for this or how was that you get it? If the former can you post the new spec sheet with all the T/S parameters.)
Reality Was 93L, Fs31, Qts 0.41 (do you have a spec sheet for this or how was that you get it? If the former can you post the new spec sheet with all the T/S parameters.)
Hello Inductor
Yes I have all the T/S parameters.
About the AE Speakers I don't care anymore. I run simulation with these program for 75L BR what I asked from him and my result was way off com pare to his sim result.
I just smell a business (interest) behind what he wrote to me. It doesn't matter anymore.
You can run a test if you want to see (if I'm wrong or He cheated)
Greetings Gabor
Hello Inductor
Yes I have all the T/S parameters.
About the AE Speakers I don't care anymore. I run simulation with these program for 75L BR what I asked from him and my result was way off com pare to his sim result.
I just smell a business (interest) behind what he wrote to me. It doesn't matter anymore.
You can run a test if you want to see (if I'm wrong or He cheated)
Greetings Gabor
Hi again,
That's not fair from you Gabor.
If you notice (first, and I think I already mentioned that) this driver is good for a small enclosure (as is the Alcone). Then if you use a bigger enclosure like >75 L you will have un handicap because of the alignment (but you don't say or elaborate which or what the cheating is), but you can get the lower F3 of <30 Hz at the cost of lower SPL.
AESPEAKERS TD10S, VB = 44.0 L, FB = 35.7 Hz, le 0 dB correspond à 90.9 dB2.83Vm.
F3=38 Hz, F6=32 Hz, F12=26 Hz (sim@JAN/2012)
As the Alcone, I don't have enough information, official or not (can you post a spec sheet?, is it a new version?), about new specs or how they were measured, to resume modeling. But this driver also models in a way similar to the AE because it requires a small box/enclosure.
ALCONE AC 10 HE, VB = 52.0 L, FB = 33.1 Hz, le 0 dB correspond à 90.4 dB2.83Vm.
F3=36 Hz, F6=31 Hz, F12=25 Hz (sim@JAN/2012)
Attachments
Last edited:
Hello Inductor
Please look at the AE Speakers simulation what He did in 75L BR. That is His sim result not mine!!!!😕
Now you write the AE is good for smaller enclosure. You know what 100% I agree! After my sim the 75L way to much for the AE.
So what I said I smell business interest when I read his letter. I do not want to post all letter what he wrote to me, OK?
After the factory measurement the Alcone was offered two enclosure
1 18L sealed box F3 60Hz
2 65L vented F3 28Hz but these the old version!
These is the new Alcone Small Parameters
hifisound eShop * -* ALCONE 10 HE - ALU MEMBRAN * R
After these Small Parameters my sim result even larger than 75L BR look very nice!
The simulator advise (optimal) 90L BR.
I have no reason to lie.
Please run a sim from the AE TD10S 75L BR and if you get the same result what He sent to me I'm mistaken and willing to ask forgiveness.
Don't forget even your advise it is good for smaller enclosure.
Also he wrote I only can use the Alcone up to 200Hz max.
I do not want to go further in the rest of the details. Please understand one think I have no interest to promote the Alcone against the AE speakers or simple write against the AE Speakers!
The sim program I use is at third page.
I can't post my sim result I don't know how to save it.
Only I can print it out and scan and post that. Right now I'm out of black ink.
Please run a sim from the AE speaker for 75L BR. If you get the same result what He sent me only one think remain to say.
I don't know how to use even that simple sim program.
With all my respect to you, I own you many thanks. Otherwise these AE Speaker from my part it would be past!
Greetings Gabor🙂
Please look at the AE Speakers simulation what He did in 75L BR. That is His sim result not mine!!!!😕
Now you write the AE is good for smaller enclosure. You know what 100% I agree! After my sim the 75L way to much for the AE.
So what I said I smell business interest when I read his letter. I do not want to post all letter what he wrote to me, OK?
After the factory measurement the Alcone was offered two enclosure
1 18L sealed box F3 60Hz
2 65L vented F3 28Hz but these the old version!
These is the new Alcone Small Parameters
hifisound eShop * -* ALCONE 10 HE - ALU MEMBRAN * R
After these Small Parameters my sim result even larger than 75L BR look very nice!
The simulator advise (optimal) 90L BR.
I have no reason to lie.
Please run a sim from the AE TD10S 75L BR and if you get the same result what He sent to me I'm mistaken and willing to ask forgiveness.
Don't forget even your advise it is good for smaller enclosure.
Also he wrote I only can use the Alcone up to 200Hz max.
I do not want to go further in the rest of the details. Please understand one think I have no interest to promote the Alcone against the AE speakers or simple write against the AE Speakers!
The sim program I use is at third page.
I can't post my sim result I don't know how to save it.
Only I can print it out and scan and post that. Right now I'm out of black ink.
Please run a sim from the AE speaker for 75L BR. If you get the same result what He sent me only one think remain to say.
I don't know how to use even that simple sim program.
With all my respect to you, I own you many thanks. Otherwise these AE Speaker from my part it would be past!
Greetings Gabor🙂
Last edited:
Hello Inductor
I accept both of your sim result! I get the same result. That is why I disagree with the AE speakers (I forget his name) manufacturer.
The AE give even worst result at 75L BR than the old Alcone.
The new Alcone very nice even 90L BR. Actually that is the optimal BR enclosure after these sim program.
So the 75L is OK. With the damping material I can get more 15-20%. I will play with it.
I do not say the AE speakers not great drivers. I never heard one.
What I hear from the Alcone I like a lot. There was no A-B test between the two driver. Probably the AE much better than the Alcone, but I need in 75L BR enclosure.
Why I wrote I do not care because I do not want to produce speakers.
I want to finish these 3 way and that is all.
I feel I get the right woofer for the job.
Probably the Scan Revelator would be the best choice but not now ($$$$).
I spent to much from my Visa.
The shipping fro Europe was 60Euros 30Euros for matching plus the price of the Alcones. I purchased a par 4" Tang band bamboo cone next to my Monacor 8" woofer (that was $110 to).
That SPH 200 KE Monacor not bad driver.I couldn't sell them so I will build something with the Tang band together.
The titanium cone probably better choice than the bamboo but I own to many metal cone drivers
Visaton AL130, Gorlich Podzust, Alcone.
The AE speakers great drivers I have no doubt about but not in 75L BR.
That is all.
Again He run that AE sim result I posted. I do not have that software..
Greetings Gabor
I accept both of your sim result! I get the same result. That is why I disagree with the AE speakers (I forget his name) manufacturer.
The AE give even worst result at 75L BR than the old Alcone.
The new Alcone very nice even 90L BR. Actually that is the optimal BR enclosure after these sim program.
So the 75L is OK. With the damping material I can get more 15-20%. I will play with it.
I do not say the AE speakers not great drivers. I never heard one.
What I hear from the Alcone I like a lot. There was no A-B test between the two driver. Probably the AE much better than the Alcone, but I need in 75L BR enclosure.
Why I wrote I do not care because I do not want to produce speakers.
I want to finish these 3 way and that is all.
I feel I get the right woofer for the job.
Probably the Scan Revelator would be the best choice but not now ($$$$).
I spent to much from my Visa.
The shipping fro Europe was 60Euros 30Euros for matching plus the price of the Alcones. I purchased a par 4" Tang band bamboo cone next to my Monacor 8" woofer (that was $110 to).
That SPH 200 KE Monacor not bad driver.I couldn't sell them so I will build something with the Tang band together.
The titanium cone probably better choice than the bamboo but I own to many metal cone drivers
Visaton AL130, Gorlich Podzust, Alcone.
The AE speakers great drivers I have no doubt about but not in 75L BR.
That is all.
Again He run that AE sim result I posted. I do not have that software..
Greetings Gabor
AESPEAKERS TD10S vs ALCONE AC 10 HE
Side by side compar. for these 10"s in a (BR) 75 L volume enclosure.😉
AESPEAKERS TD10S, VB = 75.0 L, FB = 29.9 Hz, le 0 dB correspond à 90.9 dB2.83Vm.
F3=30 Hz, F6=26 Hz, F12=22 Hz (sim@JAN/2012)
ALCONE AC 10 HE, VB = 75.0 L, FB = 29.5 Hz, le 0 dB correspond à 90.4 dB2.83Vm.
F3=31 Hz, F6=27 Hz, F12=22 Hz (sim@JAN/2012)
Side by side compar. for these 10"s in a (BR) 75 L volume enclosure.😉
AESPEAKERS TD10S, VB = 75.0 L, FB = 29.9 Hz, le 0 dB correspond à 90.9 dB2.83Vm.
F3=30 Hz, F6=26 Hz, F12=22 Hz (sim@JAN/2012)
ALCONE AC 10 HE, VB = 75.0 L, FB = 29.5 Hz, le 0 dB correspond à 90.4 dB2.83Vm.
F3=31 Hz, F6=27 Hz, F12=22 Hz (sim@JAN/2012)
Attachments
Hello Inductor
So you can see the AE speaker does not good in 75L. How in the Earth He got these result? See the attached sim result.
Actually the two line the result of two 10" AE driver simulation in 75L BR!
He wrote to me these "crap"
Hello,
In this case either of the drivers could work well. I would choose the TD10S though because you get slightly more output down low. You will achieve the 90dB goal everywhere above 80hz. Below that down to 30hz there is only a very small rolloff. With room/boundary gain you will have plenty of output. The tuning in this graph is 28hz in the 75L which is very good for either option
Now please use the real Alcone small parameters. That is at the website I attached 2 post before your last post.
You will see a very nice sim result!
That is why I went to 75L not 65L. I even think to ad more but with room gain I'll get nice 30Hz or below that is good enough to me.
Can you explain how He got these sim result. That is not a lie?
It is OK, God bless him and give him a great business so there will be no need to do any nasty think. Misinform people etc..
Greetings Gabor
So you can see the AE speaker does not good in 75L. How in the Earth He got these result? See the attached sim result.
Actually the two line the result of two 10" AE driver simulation in 75L BR!
He wrote to me these "crap"
Hello,
In this case either of the drivers could work well. I would choose the TD10S though because you get slightly more output down low. You will achieve the 90dB goal everywhere above 80hz. Below that down to 30hz there is only a very small rolloff. With room/boundary gain you will have plenty of output. The tuning in this graph is 28hz in the 75L which is very good for either option
Now please use the real Alcone small parameters. That is at the website I attached 2 post before your last post.
You will see a very nice sim result!
That is why I went to 75L not 65L. I even think to ad more but with room gain I'll get nice 30Hz or below that is good enough to me.
Can you explain how He got these sim result. That is not a lie?
It is OK, God bless him and give him a great business so there will be no need to do any nasty think. Misinform people etc..
Greetings Gabor
Attachments
Hello Inductor
OK now I see the difference between our simulation and His simulation.
Actually He provided a sim where I can see the sound pressure DB for all the bass scale.
If you look at his simulator it does not have +/-db it has 87,93Db and so on.
Here is the program I use.
Basreflex
With the new Alcone small parameters the optimal actually 99L. That not a small enclosure at all.
But I have 75-77L, I can gain 15% more that is 90L. It is a very nice simulation result from 90L.
In one sentence these is good enough to me.
The AE would cost to me twice as much. I didn't paid any import tax on the Alcone, was sent as a gift no insurance value.
So the Alcone less than half price com pare to AE drivers.
From USA import sure I would pay import duty.
I apologize about the misunderstanding.Actually I misread the sim result! I didn't paid attention He talk about the speakers sensitivity.
But still 75L a bit to much for the AE 10" drivers. I'd like when the line remain on 0db all the way not over or under
Please use the proveded (NEW ALCONE small parameters)
Thank you
Greetings Gabor🙂
OK now I see the difference between our simulation and His simulation.
Actually He provided a sim where I can see the sound pressure DB for all the bass scale.
If you look at his simulator it does not have +/-db it has 87,93Db and so on.
Here is the program I use.
Basreflex
With the new Alcone small parameters the optimal actually 99L. That not a small enclosure at all.
But I have 75-77L, I can gain 15% more that is 90L. It is a very nice simulation result from 90L.
In one sentence these is good enough to me.
The AE would cost to me twice as much. I didn't paid any import tax on the Alcone, was sent as a gift no insurance value.
So the Alcone less than half price com pare to AE drivers.
From USA import sure I would pay import duty.
I apologize about the misunderstanding.Actually I misread the sim result! I didn't paid attention He talk about the speakers sensitivity.
But still 75L a bit to much for the AE 10" drivers. I'd like when the line remain on 0db all the way not over or under
Please use the proveded (NEW ALCONE small parameters)
Thank you
Greetings Gabor🙂
Attachments
Last edited:
Hello Inductor
To whose mouth??
I can not feel the taste other people mouth!
If I disappointed you I apologize. I didn't knew you have any interest on the AE speakers in case if you have.
Don't forget even you wrote that is good for a small enclosure, I agree with you in that 100%.
He still wrote me a bunch of ............. The Alcone only good up to 200Hz. Also the AE great in 75L, outperform the Alcone every area so on.
The important fact here the 75L BR enclosure! Because I did look for driver for 75L BR.
I want to close these mess once and for all.
I have no reason to talk or write anything what is untrue! I do not promote neither speaker.
My last question
Do the AE perform great in 75L BR? No that sim result so ugly I have no word for to describe it.
Good performance, that is far from the reality. That what he wrote to me, it is great in 75L BR.
Please run a sim with the real Alcone small parameters and you see the real difference.
Thank you very much
Greetings Gabor
To whose mouth??
I can not feel the taste other people mouth!
If I disappointed you I apologize. I didn't knew you have any interest on the AE speakers in case if you have.
Don't forget even you wrote that is good for a small enclosure, I agree with you in that 100%.
He still wrote me a bunch of ............. The Alcone only good up to 200Hz. Also the AE great in 75L, outperform the Alcone every area so on.
The important fact here the 75L BR enclosure! Because I did look for driver for 75L BR.
I want to close these mess once and for all.
I have no reason to talk or write anything what is untrue! I do not promote neither speaker.
My last question
Do the AE perform great in 75L BR? No that sim result so ugly I have no word for to describe it.
Good performance, that is far from the reality. That what he wrote to me, it is great in 75L BR.
Please run a sim with the real Alcone small parameters and you see the real difference.
Thank you very much
Greetings Gabor
Last edited:
Sorry Gabor, the AE and the Alcone look the same to me (low frequency simulation wise). SPL is the same and attenuation is the same (in technical sensible parameters +/-1dB/Hz).
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...s-3-way-system-help-needed-6.html#post2856313
And I don't have a references for a new set of complete T/S parameters (unless Alcone is sending them with the drivers) for a "new" version of the Alcone (with Xmax included). T/S parameters can vary from driver to driver and between a (matched) pair as will in your case if you measure them.😀
Hello Inductor
Come on please how you can say that?
Why you don't run a sim from the Alcone new T/S parameters?
Here is it, why Alcone have to send it to you.
I got it with the drives and also the company did matched them not with a DMM.
hifisound eShop * -* ALCONE 10 HE - ALU MEMBRAN * R
These data is the same I get it. Please look at the the 3 most important measurement
Was: 93L
Qts: 0.41
Fs: 31
linear excursion 7 mm
Please open that page ant take a look. How can be the two the same?? Please do not write that. That is far from the reality.
I agree with you the T/S can be different between the same drivers but not that much.
I have no reason to argue with you, instead I have a lot to thank to you!
I want to close these AE speakers or what ever ones and for all.
I know what he wrote to me and what ever we talk here that does not change that fact! It is pure business motivation........
Thanks one more time
Greetings Gabor
Come on please how you can say that?
Why you don't run a sim from the Alcone new T/S parameters?
Here is it, why Alcone have to send it to you.
I got it with the drives and also the company did matched them not with a DMM.
hifisound eShop * -* ALCONE 10 HE - ALU MEMBRAN * R
These data is the same I get it. Please look at the the 3 most important measurement
Was: 93L
Qts: 0.41
Fs: 31
linear excursion 7 mm
Please open that page ant take a look. How can be the two the same?? Please do not write that. That is far from the reality.
I agree with you the T/S can be different between the same drivers but not that much.
I have no reason to argue with you, instead I have a lot to thank to you!
I want to close these AE speakers or what ever ones and for all.
I know what he wrote to me and what ever we talk here that does not change that fact! It is pure business motivation........
Thanks one more time
Greetings Gabor
Last edited:
Without knowing more, I have to assume that's not a T/S parameter but just excursion peak to peak, i.e. Xmax=3.5 mm.
As I said, if that's a new driver I would like to see the complete set of parameters. You can just post.
Last edited:
Hello Inductor
They do not share Xmax. Just linear excursion 7 mm.
Honestly I do not know if that one way or half.
With that software which does not ask for Xmax I get always the same result like you .
So I tested with the new small parameters and 75L OK.
If I gain 15% more with the damping material much better from 90L F3 31Hz. Optimal 99L F3 30Hz.
How I learned the large Xmax drivers are not for good quality audio sound. Just for bum bum bum.
Greetings Gabor
They do not share Xmax. Just linear excursion 7 mm.
Honestly I do not know if that one way or half.
With that software which does not ask for Xmax I get always the same result like you .
So I tested with the new small parameters and 75L OK.
If I gain 15% more with the damping material much better from 90L F3 31Hz. Optimal 99L F3 30Hz.
How I learned the large Xmax drivers are not for good quality audio sound. Just for bum bum bum.
Greetings Gabor
Xmax = (Voice Coil Length - Height of the Magnetic Gap) / 2
For ALCONE AC 10 HE:
voice coil height = 15 mm
gap height = 8 mm
(15mm - 8mm)/2 = ±3.5mm.
Comparing the two speaker drivers AESPEAKERS TD10S vs ALCONE AC 10 HE for max. SPL@Xmax. With 2 speakers at 3 m distance (reference 1 speaker@1 meter).
AESPEAKERS TD10S - 107.6 dB (V@Xmax = 33.27 V)
ALCONE AC 10 HE - 101 dB (V@Xmax = 14.14 V)
AESPEAKERS TD10S - 107.6 dB (V@Xmax = 33.27 V)
ALCONE AC 10 HE - 101 dB (V@Xmax = 14.14 V)
Attachments
Last edited:
Hello Inductor
I do not want to flow into further details. I do not want to cam pare the two driver. There is no reason to do so.
I want to build a 3 way high quality speaker. I want to listening Jazz, Classical, Gospel, some Folks music.
One think I want to ask from you
Please post the simulation result after the new Alcone available data.
The woofer suspension is stiff, coil height 15mm. Xmax can not be 20mm.
Al do the woofer continuous power handling max 150W , music power 300W . I have no need for that but good to have specially with classical music.
"linear excursion 7 mm" if that mean Xmax +/-3.5mm please use that.What I want to say I need these speakers max 10-15W all my life time. I do not want to to use it for disco etc.
The most important to me that 10-15W to be high quality.
I do not want to sell these as 200W speaker, neither produce more....
What is your opinion about that round Baltic birch under the woofer.
I have a feeling I must go with square piece..
What do you think.
I have to use that because the woofer enclosure was designed for 8" driver. I have to make under the driver wider the enclosure.
I know is not perfect but I want to bring out the best look.
I will stain the wood, similar color that brown front.
Under the woofer I'll use brow letter.
Please let me know your opinion before I glue that on the front.
Thank you very much
Greetings Gabor
I do not want to flow into further details. I do not want to cam pare the two driver. There is no reason to do so.
I want to build a 3 way high quality speaker. I want to listening Jazz, Classical, Gospel, some Folks music.
One think I want to ask from you
Please post the simulation result after the new Alcone available data.
The woofer suspension is stiff, coil height 15mm. Xmax can not be 20mm.
Al do the woofer continuous power handling max 150W , music power 300W . I have no need for that but good to have specially with classical music.
"linear excursion 7 mm" if that mean Xmax +/-3.5mm please use that.What I want to say I need these speakers max 10-15W all my life time. I do not want to to use it for disco etc.
The most important to me that 10-15W to be high quality.
I do not want to sell these as 200W speaker, neither produce more....
What is your opinion about that round Baltic birch under the woofer.
I have a feeling I must go with square piece..
What do you think.
I have to use that because the woofer enclosure was designed for 8" driver. I have to make under the driver wider the enclosure.
I know is not perfect but I want to bring out the best look.
I will stain the wood, similar color that brown front.
Under the woofer I'll use brow letter.
Please let me know your opinion before I glue that on the front.
Thank you very much
Greetings Gabor
Attachments
Looks very OK with me (round/perfect). Leave it lighter as the bottom...
You can look at some Pi projects for ideas...
Pi Speakers - unmatched quality and state-of-the-art performance
Thank you Inductor
I do stain all the wood with one color a bit lighter or darker than the brown face plate. Probably lighter, Mahogany or so
Remember the side all the enclosure all wood.
I'll use spike between the woofer and mid woofer. That way I can adjust the angle. I think I glue the tweeter enclosure with the mids. I don't think there is a need for spike between the tweeter and mid enclosure.
Thanks one more time.
Greetings Gabor
I do stain all the wood with one color a bit lighter or darker than the brown face plate. Probably lighter, Mahogany or so
Remember the side all the enclosure all wood.
I'll use spike between the woofer and mid woofer. That way I can adjust the angle. I think I glue the tweeter enclosure with the mids. I don't think there is a need for spike between the tweeter and mid enclosure.
Thanks one more time.
Greetings Gabor
Attachments
- Status
- Not open for further replies.