Newly refurbished BC Place stadium opened to the public last night. Great job they did and I was really looking forward to the "updated" sound system. The old air supported roof gave the impression of an echo chamber but at least you could hear what the announcer was saying. Can't say the same for the new stuff. Went from bad to really bad. Who the hell gets away with this ?
It's so good they didn't even want to put their name on it. 😉
It's so good they didn't even want to put their name on it. 😉
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Yeah it is sad what gets put in and taken down and what some of these large places sound like.
Where I work has been doing a number of foot ball stadiums this season, some of which use just a few very high power full range point sources. The result is subjectively enough better to make many of these sales just a matter of a demo.
As this is a speaker forum, they did a demo Tuesday with three full range speakers at a 110,000 seat foot ball stadium, sort of gives an idea what can be done haha.. Mike had his camcorder and made a video (link).
Now if you watch it, the speakers are the little black glob under the scoreboard, it is one J2 facing forward and a J1 facing right and left.
Keep in mind, this is also capable of more acoustic power than the large EV center cluster array they took down in your arena, most of the foot ball uses involve a 650-800 foot between the speakers and the farthest seats .
Try these with headphones
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.'s Videos | Facebook
One J1 Jericho speaker in a parking lot.
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.'s Videos | Facebook
Best,
Tom Danley
Danley Sound Labs
Danley Sound Labs, Inc. | Facebook
Where I work has been doing a number of foot ball stadiums this season, some of which use just a few very high power full range point sources. The result is subjectively enough better to make many of these sales just a matter of a demo.
As this is a speaker forum, they did a demo Tuesday with three full range speakers at a 110,000 seat foot ball stadium, sort of gives an idea what can be done haha.. Mike had his camcorder and made a video (link).
Now if you watch it, the speakers are the little black glob under the scoreboard, it is one J2 facing forward and a J1 facing right and left.
Keep in mind, this is also capable of more acoustic power than the large EV center cluster array they took down in your arena, most of the foot ball uses involve a 650-800 foot between the speakers and the farthest seats .
Try these with headphones
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.'s Videos | Facebook
One J1 Jericho speaker in a parking lot.
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.'s Videos | Facebook
Best,
Tom Danley
Danley Sound Labs
Danley Sound Labs, Inc. | Facebook
I'll Let you know! Not one of mine. But from looking at the line array clusters if they are real, it should be able to work well. The older system is much lower power and a "Point Source" with a bit too much space between drivers.
If you want to download http://www.audioxpress.com/magsdirx/ax/addenda/media/wordtest.zip
You can burn a test CD and demonstrate to the owner that their system is inadequate.
If you want to download http://www.audioxpress.com/magsdirx/ax/addenda/media/wordtest.zip
You can burn a test CD and demonstrate to the owner that their system is inadequate.
nice to know what happened to the old stuff that they took down. I wonder if it went up for sale. it would be nice to know if you could grab that stuff for home usage.
The old Altec/EV system had the point source unit (1st pic) at one end of the stadium and the 2nd pic shows what they had around the remainder. I think there were about 20 of them. It was lower powered but more sensitive and gave a better quality sound even when hindered by the roof.
Yes it would.
No but I think I'll go looking for it. 🙂
That really is an excellent example of audio engineering at it's best. I'm humbled. Congratulations to you.
Anything like this is a consultant job which goes out to a list of bidders in which the lowest bid wins. When finished the consultant goes thru all the work. When I say goes thru all the work they check all the rack work/terminations, correct wiring, everything labled, they set the gains and losses, they fine tune everything that the sound contractor has put in. This is not limited to just the racks of source gear but all electronics. There is nothing left untouched by the consultant that dreamed up the system. Anything not meeting the consultants approval gets re-done until it does meet the consultants specifications and desires.
If I were to suspect anything it would be operator error. It is not uncommon to have problems with level on the first game which are the result of the operator not being familiar with the system and being afraid to push it. Being that I have been a part of some large stadium systems I am aware of the minimum output level that the system needs to be able to satisfy as a result of the system requirements in the documentation that is specified. The arrays when set up correctly are quite capable of supplying the typical needs of a stadium.
I will admit that the first arrays that I had ever seen left me wondering if they were as capable of supplying the necessary level. Anything other than the typical large center cluster with the rows satellite speakers were unacceptable in my mind. Having played with the newer technology I will have to say that I am amazed at how good they do work. They will keep up or exceed the levels of the older multiple cluster old technology systems.
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Yeah, I would like to know who the cosulants, contractor and manufacturer of the system are.
The original system was designed by Bob Coffeen at al and had over 40k Watts of audio power. It was not designed for rock concerts and not underpowered at that. The original design included acoustical treatment that was not installed to cut costs. This resulted in a rather high RT60
A few years ago they replaced the original EV horns with constant-directivity horns. That change did not make a great improvement, but after you spend $500k+ you are obliged to say: Oh, much better!
After EXPO86 all the sound and lighting gear was auctioned-off with preferential treatment given to schools and non-profits. I hope they did that here too.
E
The original system was designed by Bob Coffeen at al and had over 40k Watts of audio power. It was not designed for rock concerts and not underpowered at that. The original design included acoustical treatment that was not installed to cut costs. This resulted in a rather high RT60
A few years ago they replaced the original EV horns with constant-directivity horns. That change did not make a great improvement, but after you spend $500k+ you are obliged to say: Oh, much better!
After EXPO86 all the sound and lighting gear was auctioned-off with preferential treatment given to schools and non-profits. I hope they did that here too.
E
Yes, I am familiar with the process, my questions were rhetorical. 🙂
Ouch.
That's the stadium filler (CFL) along with the other football (MLS). It is also used for trade shows and conventions etc. It is booked over 200 days a year.
Combined into a 563 million dollar retrofit, I expected something more. Now all I have to show is a 😡. The rest of it was done really nicely. It really is like having a new stadium.
The line arrays certainly look the part. Hard to imagine they wouldn't do the job. It's got to be operator error.
There may be better ways to this, but what's there "should" do the job. Unless they're empty. 😀
There may be better ways to this, but what's there "should" do the job. Unless they're empty. 😀
No problem with the volume, just the clarity. No highs, no lows, must be... uh, I'm getting off track here. The old system you could hear from 100Hz up to about 8K (guessing). This system you get what amounts to a telephone.
It might just be that we were sitting in a bad location.
It might just be that we were sitting in a bad location.
At least you didn't get renkus heinz.
I don't recognize those arrays, but the blame could really go either way. It could go to the operator, but when the system is done properly, basically, all the operator should have to do is push the fader.
It's entirely possible the consultant or whoever tuned the system really doesn't understand line arrays and simply uses them because they are fashionable and its what the client wants to see hanging. So, they could absolutely be processed incorrectly. It is a really nice looking install though.
The whole point of a group of line arrays like that is that there should not be any bad locations.
I suspect user error, and that once the crew are used to the new rig, next time you go to a game there it'll be a lot better.
8K is about the limit for a 200' throw. If you want to get to 14K then due to atmospheric absorption you will need about 630,000 times the power. Low frequency is actually limited by the roof. Where it doesn't snow the roof is so thin the bass thinks it is open air! Of course once you get into the snow belt roofs get thicker. The the bass is often rolled off to keep things from getting muddy.
Jack was out of town last week so I'll see if it is his.
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