Hello! I am an building a cargo trike and want to build a 6 speaker audio system into the design.
I want to design/build a system that will give me good quality sound in my personal space, if you follow me. I am not interested in bass that people in their houses can hear as I ride by like so many cars have,. just a 3-6 foot radius of sound around my bike is what i would like.
I learned something about basic electronics back in the nineties, otherwise I know nothing about hi-fi audio. I am posting this in car audio forum because i figured i am using 12 volts. a li-po battery. the battery will have other accessories on it as well, ie headlight, horn, computer, etc. I a
other features
+ since its a trike/bicycle it will have to be water resistant/marine type speakers
+2 woofers, 2 midrange, 2 tweeters.( i guess that will give me a good range of sound.)
+ I thought i could embed a couple of speakers in fiberglass seat I am building.
where do I start? do I need a channel for each speaker? can i make waterproof speaker cones? all i know is that speakers need a amplifier. thanks!
I want to design/build a system that will give me good quality sound in my personal space, if you follow me. I am not interested in bass that people in their houses can hear as I ride by like so many cars have,. just a 3-6 foot radius of sound around my bike is what i would like.
I learned something about basic electronics back in the nineties, otherwise I know nothing about hi-fi audio. I am posting this in car audio forum because i figured i am using 12 volts. a li-po battery. the battery will have other accessories on it as well, ie headlight, horn, computer, etc. I a
other features
+ since its a trike/bicycle it will have to be water resistant/marine type speakers
+2 woofers, 2 midrange, 2 tweeters.( i guess that will give me a good range of sound.)
+ I thought i could embed a couple of speakers in fiberglass seat I am building.
where do I start? do I need a channel for each speaker? can i make waterproof speaker cones? all i know is that speakers need a amplifier. thanks!
You can run a single four channel amp or even get a 5-channel amp and it can run up to two speakers on each channel. Something like THIS will work just fine. A good deep cycle battery like THISwill last a lot longer then normal car batteries. just make sure you get 4ohm voice coil speakers and your good to go.
Any particular reason why you want 2 subs? If you like the looks, ok, but for your purposes I would suggest spending the money on one sub. Just a suggestion.
That seller on ebay doesn't appear to be trustworthy. At one point they claim it is an 1800 watt amp... then later it says 900w RMS, then 1200w, then later 1100 MAX, then after that it says 1100 RMS. On top of that, it is a 12v amp with 3x 30 amp fuses (90 amps), for a total maximum theoretical output (at 100% efficiency, which is impossible) of 1060 watts, so it wont get near its stated output power, whichever the intended value is. All that screams cheap amp and a seller who is obviously trying to mislead buyers. I strongly suggest that you don't purchase that.
You'll be much better off buying a quality amp from a reputable reseller. A quality 1200w RMS amp will cost much more than that (2x+), without any wires and whatnot. Always look to see if the rated wattage is CEA2006 certified. That is the baseline for an amp that will at least meet its stated specs. High quality amps, however, come with birth sheets, which prove that the amp you just bought not only meets stated specs, but shows you by how much it exceeds them.
Just be careful. There is a lot of blatantly false advertising when it comes to amplifiers. Pay no attention at all to "MAX", "Peak" or other similar wattage ratings (often printed on boxes, faceplates, or heatsinks). These values are meaningless "fluffery". Only RMS ratings matter. Even then, only CEA certified or birthsheet-proven RMS ratings are reliable. Otherwise, the RMS ratings are just as meaningless as MAX ratings. Whatever you decide on, remember that you get what you pay for.
OK, that aside. You don't need a channel for each speaker, and you don't sound like you want a loud system. I would suggest that you get component speakers. That way you don't need an external crossover, and would only need a 2.1 channel amp, or a 2 channel amp and a monoblock sub amp.
That seller on ebay doesn't appear to be trustworthy. At one point they claim it is an 1800 watt amp... then later it says 900w RMS, then 1200w, then later 1100 MAX, then after that it says 1100 RMS. On top of that, it is a 12v amp with 3x 30 amp fuses (90 amps), for a total maximum theoretical output (at 100% efficiency, which is impossible) of 1060 watts, so it wont get near its stated output power, whichever the intended value is. All that screams cheap amp and a seller who is obviously trying to mislead buyers. I strongly suggest that you don't purchase that.
You'll be much better off buying a quality amp from a reputable reseller. A quality 1200w RMS amp will cost much more than that (2x+), without any wires and whatnot. Always look to see if the rated wattage is CEA2006 certified. That is the baseline for an amp that will at least meet its stated specs. High quality amps, however, come with birth sheets, which prove that the amp you just bought not only meets stated specs, but shows you by how much it exceeds them.
Just be careful. There is a lot of blatantly false advertising when it comes to amplifiers. Pay no attention at all to "MAX", "Peak" or other similar wattage ratings (often printed on boxes, faceplates, or heatsinks). These values are meaningless "fluffery". Only RMS ratings matter. Even then, only CEA certified or birthsheet-proven RMS ratings are reliable. Otherwise, the RMS ratings are just as meaningless as MAX ratings. Whatever you decide on, remember that you get what you pay for.
OK, that aside. You don't need a channel for each speaker, and you don't sound like you want a loud system. I would suggest that you get component speakers. That way you don't need an external crossover, and would only need a 2.1 channel amp, or a 2 channel amp and a monoblock sub amp.
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So you suggest he spend 1200 on a Sundown amp? it's for a trike, he's not competing with it. He doesn't need 1200rms. I used those sellers as examples. He can buy from Woofersetc.com the online car audio super store, the largest selection at the lowest prices! Car Audio Stereo - Car Subwoofers - Car Amplifiers and Speakers and plenty of others.
1. No. 2. I used that wattage range as an example because you suggested it.
He can buy good quality used amps instead of crap new ones. My post was mostly geared toward informing him. Knowledge is power. If you don't respect that, very well. If he spends $200 on a new amp expecting 1800w, and only gets 500, would he not be better off buying a better quality used 2.1 channel amp with more watts for the same price? I purchased my last 1200w rms jbl amp from ebay used for $200 shipped, so yeah, it is doable. There is a huge supply off high quality used amps out there. And that is if price is an issue. He can always buy new. But I never recommend anyone to consider anything that has false or misleading advertising.
And I understand that you were not recommending the seller, but only suggesting a type of amp. My only suggestions about his setup were using a single sub (instead of two), and two component speakers, instead of having separate mids and tweets. I don't know enough about 'trikes' to really go further without pics and more info.
He can buy good quality used amps instead of crap new ones. My post was mostly geared toward informing him. Knowledge is power. If you don't respect that, very well. If he spends $200 on a new amp expecting 1800w, and only gets 500, would he not be better off buying a better quality used 2.1 channel amp with more watts for the same price? I purchased my last 1200w rms jbl amp from ebay used for $200 shipped, so yeah, it is doable. There is a huge supply off high quality used amps out there. And that is if price is an issue. He can always buy new. But I never recommend anyone to consider anything that has false or misleading advertising.
And I understand that you were not recommending the seller, but only suggesting a type of amp. My only suggestions about his setup were using a single sub (instead of two), and two component speakers, instead of having separate mids and tweets. I don't know enough about 'trikes' to really go further without pics and more info.
If he buys a used amp as you suggest, he gets no warranty with. Bad idea. Once again, I used those sellers and amps for that matter as an example. I do know enough about trikes as I have been lowriding for twenty years and I know exactly what he's looking to do. Most if not all newer amps come from korea/china and yes people on ebay used peak ratings which are useless. Again- Example.
thank you very much for responding! every sentence has given me new insights and information on a field i know nothing about. what i really want to do is find good circuit design and build, test and design as much of my system as possible instead of simply buying components. i really dont know what i am doing and want to learn to make as good as system as possible with as little time as money as possible, but i also want to learn the basic principles of audio design. learning is as important to my project as the final result. i am hoping i can build quality if i cant pay for it.
is its so difficult to build from scratch your own amp and speakers?i will do the research, if it's too complicated and expensive to build I will just buy the components. right now I dont understand 2.1 channel amp, or a monoblock sub amps
thanks for explaining the importance of RMS ratings- i am completely lost with the what is a good wattage rating.
you are right, i dont want a really loud system and the 26lb battery listed might be too heavy for my trike, which will be about 150lbs as it is.
is its so difficult to build from scratch your own amp and speakers?i will do the research, if it's too complicated and expensive to build I will just buy the components. right now I dont understand 2.1 channel amp, or a monoblock sub amps
thanks for explaining the importance of RMS ratings- i am completely lost with the what is a good wattage rating.
you are right, i dont want a really loud system and the 26lb battery listed might be too heavy for my trike, which will be about 150lbs as it is.
Car Alarm, Car Stereo, Mobile Video, and Cruise Control Info for Installers can help a lot. Also Perry Babin's website Basic Car Audio Electronics
Also I'm sorry I didn't go into to detail as far as RMS and the like. I get tired of posting all that stuff only to have the OP say they just wanted suggestions and didn't want to learn anything. Good luck to ya
By 2.1 channel I mean a full-range stereo amplifier that also has a powered sub output, with a built-in variable crossover. A monoblock amplifier is just a single channel amplifier for subwoofers. They often have built-in crossovers, but many prefer to bypass it and use an external crossover.
If you are considering building your own amplifiers, I won't be able to help, as I am also clueless. However, you will probably be better off deciding what you want in a system, then researching what it would take to design and build the components. Once that's done you should be able to make your make or buy decision. I imagine speakers would be much harder than amplifiers and crossovers, though, and you might decide to buy some parts and build others. With electronics, you buy components and put them together... with speaker building, there would probably be some manufacturing involved. Building a single amplifier might be too daunting... you may want to consider building a separate amplifier (3 total) and whatnot for each speaker.
If you are considering building your own amplifiers, I won't be able to help, as I am also clueless. However, you will probably be better off deciding what you want in a system, then researching what it would take to design and build the components. Once that's done you should be able to make your make or buy decision. I imagine speakers would be much harder than amplifiers and crossovers, though, and you might decide to buy some parts and build others. With electronics, you buy components and put them together... with speaker building, there would probably be some manufacturing involved. Building a single amplifier might be too daunting... you may want to consider building a separate amplifier (3 total) and whatnot for each speaker.
thanks for the links, I really appreciate the feedback and an idea of what kind of system i should be looking for
thanks for explaining it further, although i still a bit slow to understand it all. I am planning to build my system at the front side of my trunk if you follow me. i have got to start designing it now because the trunk will be made of fiberglass and i have to do fiberglass contructing outside here in michigan. i figure i got about 6 weeks left to do anything like that. actually the woofer and maybe the mid range speakers will be built in the front of the trunk. i may put the tweeters in the seat.
Make it easy.
A pair of plastic cone 6x9 3-way speakers and a small 2 channel amp is all you need.
A pair of plastic cone 6x9 3-way speakers and a small 2 channel amp is all you need.
^^^lol, @ that.... anyways, i can give you all kinds of suggestions, but really, i need to know more to give you informed good advise. i have seen all kinds of trike setups, from mild, to wild. so, i take it that it will be a custom fiberglassed small vehicle, but not quite picturing it? is it a motorcycle mod, rear engine, pedal bike? what will be controlling the system? honestly, a head unit alone can give you just about what you want much of the time, and possibly a small sub amp. what kind of sound do you like, not just volume, and what type of music do you listen to? as for speaker choice, belive it or not, there is a few motorcycle use intended subs out there.
not suggesting this sub, but just to show you how big the 6.5"s can get...... you don't want a paper cone anyways.... on any of them (already had this in an open tab)
(-NEW-) American Bass (XD-65) 6.5" 300W 4-Ohm Sub 6-1/2 | eBay
(-NEW-) American Bass (XD-65) 6.5" 300W 4-Ohm Sub 6-1/2 | eBay
thanks for you help. i am building this
LodeRunner Cargo Trike - YouTube
except my box will be 2by3 instead of 2by2 that you see in the video, it will also be a little higher. i am making a steel frame box, and putting fiberglass over that. and i will have underseat steering and a hub motor. hub motor arent supposed to make a lot of noise, so its not like the music has to be heard over a loud engine. i want to make the best quality sound in the smallest space for 6 speakers over as many channels at the lowest price. and of course water resistant in case i get caught in the rain.
i listen to audiobooks and funk.
i refuse to hog up most of my box space with speakers though. the bass speaker or speakers will take up no more that a 1/5 of the box. 2 speakers on the side of the bike, 2 in the front of the bike. i want to sit in a throne of sound. i want to embed 2 speakers in the seat, which i am also making out of fiberglass. i want a system that will last me three hours. i dont need a loud bass, just a rich one. it has to be for a computer,(i am also building a bike computer) or a mp3 player of course. thats all, really.
LodeRunner Cargo Trike - YouTube
except my box will be 2by3 instead of 2by2 that you see in the video, it will also be a little higher. i am making a steel frame box, and putting fiberglass over that. and i will have underseat steering and a hub motor. hub motor arent supposed to make a lot of noise, so its not like the music has to be heard over a loud engine. i want to make the best quality sound in the smallest space for 6 speakers over as many channels at the lowest price. and of course water resistant in case i get caught in the rain.
i listen to audiobooks and funk.
i refuse to hog up most of my box space with speakers though. the bass speaker or speakers will take up no more that a 1/5 of the box. 2 speakers on the side of the bike, 2 in the front of the bike. i want to sit in a throne of sound. i want to embed 2 speakers in the seat, which i am also making out of fiberglass. i want a system that will last me three hours. i dont need a loud bass, just a rich one. it has to be for a computer,(i am also building a bike computer) or a mp3 player of course. thats all, really.
i guess its good, i dont really know anything about audio components, i am just learning. actually i would rather the whole system be about 300 watts instead of just one component. i dont want to endanger my hearing. actually i was hoping i could learn how to make one of those things...
one of what things? i now see what you are looking to do..... honestly, even 300watts is kind of overkill, especially the power reserve you are going to need to sustain that much power for that long. a head unit could give you the sound you need, but if you will mostly be using mp3, or computer as your source, then that would be just extra bulk. are you dead set on a 6channel setup? you could always go passive and use 2 channels that cross-over to 3-way operation, which you could accomplish your whole sound-stage with a pair of 6.5" mid-woofers, smaller mids and silk dome tweeters (imho sound the best without the harshness of metal/peizo) that would pretty much, done right, cover the full range of spoken word, and funk, which i do belive does not drop below 50-60hz, anyways. if you listened to other things like classical, country, rock, rap, etc, their ranges do play lower and more robust bass. as an example of a single amplifier that could get this done, and be plenty loud for you and even those around you to hear clearly- i have this jbl decade that i'm going to sell, or trade off. it is rated for 40x2rms@4, 50x2rms@2ohm, 100x1 @4ohms bridged, and 200x1max. the max current draw is under 15 amps. there is many possible ways it could be run, and there are many amps just like it, and even 4channel amps. a 2-channel could be crossed over passively, which will have 3 separate outputs per side. 1 for the tweeter, 1 for the mid, and 1 for the woofer, and even be run 3-way bridged (bridgable 2-channels, and within bridging ohms) and run to a single bass driver, or even run to one without bridging, if it is dual voice coil. also, (it sounds like you may like to) you could build your own 3-way cross-overs to fine tune which frequencies you want to go to which speaker, and that will open a little mor possibility. generally, speakers that are weather-safe are going to be marine speakers, but there are also many subs that are weather resistant, and can be made allot more water-proof with a little work. for the arrangement, the best place i can see your main stage is the upper front of the box. you want them as far out as possible, and , at least the tweeters should have a free and clear path to your ears, and minimal intrusion by your arms/shoulders for the mids, and slightly angled, as to point at your head. it is also best to make them as close together as possible (per side) so you do not encounter stage separation at different frquencies. a coaxial mount 4" mid could be an option. the 6.5 drivers could be mounted right below them, and free-aired in the box, better if it is not wide open, and some poly-fillstuffed behind them to prevent any feed-back from the cargo area, and hold the fill in place with thick heavy mill plastic sheeting, which will also help keep debris and moisture away from the back-side. the back of the mid, would be good to be pretty encased. perhaps you can fiberglass a bucket behind it just big enough to house the speaker and some fill. another option for the sub stage is a smaller enclosure, but may require more power to get decent bass out of it. if you are looking to have a front stage as well, then you can add that and use a 4channel amp, or bridge a 2-channel, but you will not have the fading control you will likely want. the front stage, however, would need only to handle mids and highs, as the rear stage or sub has already provided the "uni-directional" bass.
thanks very much for taking the time to write out such a detailed response, its greatly appreciated and will be the framework to drawing my initial design. 🙂 i am excited. i have been dissecting your note the whole weekend, as there was a lot for me to digest.
yes, you are right about 300 watts. as mentioned on the other topic
i am going to select the battery that has as many amp/hours, recharge cycles, low weight, that i can afford. maybe settle for two hours, and i will get my system wattage that way, i guess that is considered going backwards. i also confess dont understand the concept of channels fully, a lot of reading building and testing is in my future. i dont have my electronics lab up yet, my goal is by october. thanks for the tip of keeping the high and mid together, although i still want some speakers in front of me. but i will be testing how the speakers sound together before i put them on the bike.
most of the bass speak will be in the truck, with only the front 30 percent sticking out. so its protected.
thanks very much for giving me a good direction, i even understood most of what you said. 😱 i am learning! i keep reading that class D amps are really groovy, so when what wattage my selected battery will give me, i will start experimenting with a four channel class D amp circuit and see how if that is what i can use and subtract channels if i dont need them. i have never heard of "silk dome tweeters", i will have to look into that. just a few more questions, if you dont mind
1. what do you mean by "fading control"? i dont quite know what you mean.
2. would a horn use a lot of power? i am asking about horns on the parts forum and i am wondering if one over the bass would be beneficial.
3. if give a choice with only one bass, should i add a woofer or subwoofer?
thanks so much.
yes, you are right about 300 watts. as mentioned on the other topic
i am going to select the battery that has as many amp/hours, recharge cycles, low weight, that i can afford. maybe settle for two hours, and i will get my system wattage that way, i guess that is considered going backwards. i also confess dont understand the concept of channels fully, a lot of reading building and testing is in my future. i dont have my electronics lab up yet, my goal is by october. thanks for the tip of keeping the high and mid together, although i still want some speakers in front of me. but i will be testing how the speakers sound together before i put them on the bike.
most of the bass speak will be in the truck, with only the front 30 percent sticking out. so its protected.
thanks very much for giving me a good direction, i even understood most of what you said. 😱 i am learning! i keep reading that class D amps are really groovy, so when what wattage my selected battery will give me, i will start experimenting with a four channel class D amp circuit and see how if that is what i can use and subtract channels if i dont need them. i have never heard of "silk dome tweeters", i will have to look into that. just a few more questions, if you dont mind
1. what do you mean by "fading control"? i dont quite know what you mean.
2. would a horn use a lot of power? i am asking about horns on the parts forum and i am wondering if one over the bass would be beneficial.
3. if give a choice with only one bass, should i add a woofer or subwoofer?
thanks so much.
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