No. I have some audiphile friends, and they really like what that digital thingy does to sound quality.
I wish it would be fast enough for pro PA usage... I don't mean stadiums, I mean chamber style PA, for hundred or so listeners.
Waiting for faster processors, or parallel DSP, huh?
No. I have some audiphile friends, and they really like what that digital thingy does to sound quality.
I wish it would be fast enough for pro PA usage... I don't mean stadiums, I mean chamber style PA, for hundred or so listeners.
Waiting for faster processors, or parallel DSP, huh?
lol, YES!!
FWIW, if I want critical listening I tend to use a set of headphones removing the entire room from the equation
Yeah, artificial reality probably looks less sad!
Are you going to try to find some curve for some real speaker that you personally would consider not bad without any EQ?
FWIW, if I want critical listening I tend to use a set of headphones removing the entire room from the equation
Unfortunately, doing so you remove the entire your body out of equation leaving ears alone... Such a way, however, brain reconstructs missing information, and imagination can reconstruct it better than some not good enough woofers and tweeters do, but when I heard during AES convention in 2008 rotary subwoofers I understood that my under-floor concrete horns are still bogus...
Hi Doug, can't find anything after a quick google search, but I do recall reading that part of the process is to make the recording sound good in what will be a typical listening environment.
I think that your statements that what the recording engineer does is irrelevant are a little misguided personally, however I don't have a large amount of knowledge about acoustics, just what seems to me to be common sense
What I did find when googling was that the sound engineer does EQ individual instruments on individual tracks before mixing, in order to make them sound right... why would he need to do this?
Also when you think about it, the sound engineer is typically in an acoustically well designed room using nearflield monitors. This room whilst more than likely not having major issues will be contributing to the sound, so at least to some degree the recording has been eq'ed to that room.
Whether playing back in an eq;'ed room will result in what the engineer heard in his room is something I will have to ponder.
Tony.
What I really do not understand is why can't people just choose??
Why is there any opinion that if we use EQing we have low quality systems?
If A.Wayne and others would have just posted the subjective opinion that they prefer non-EQing then no one is going to debate that choice. Its when the call out our systems as inferior is when someone will question them asking for real proof.
If both sides post all the pros and cons of using EQing or more importantly room correction software. Then others have a choice, we still live in a free society that if all the information is posted people have an chance to make an educated opinion.
I have posted the pros of room correction many times already so if people want to take those nasty peaks and want to set a curve more pleasing to their own ears then they will require EQing.
Why is there any opinion that if we use EQing we have low quality systems?
If A.Wayne and others would have just posted the subjective opinion that they prefer non-EQing then no one is going to debate that choice. Its when the call out our systems as inferior is when someone will question them asking for real proof.
If both sides post all the pros and cons of using EQing or more importantly room correction software. Then others have a choice, we still live in a free society that if all the information is posted people have an chance to make an educated opinion.
I have posted the pros of room correction many times already so if people want to take those nasty peaks and want to set a curve more pleasing to their own ears then they will require EQing.
I can understand the point about feeling bass considering I have twin LMS5400s with 8000Watts along with several sealed AV15Xs to smooth out the response in my custom HT room. I also have a small IB array (4xQ18s) in my family room. I do not even consider a single 12" subwoofer worthy of bass discussion any more
No doubt the feeling of bass is removed with headphones but there is something still about quality headphones that I love more then any thing I have found in main speakers.There is a DIY rotary sub project in the works! I want one and I haven't decide to spend 12K on the real one just yet
@ Wavebourn : what is in your opinion, the limit of allowed latency in PA system ? do you mean then that many digital DSP in the market are faulty here ? Anyway that's an interesting observation.
@doug :
Ahem, seriously I agree too : since I've been tasting the IB array, (with EQ on...) my perception of the right bass quality has been changing.
@doug :
that's so cute...
Ahem, seriously I agree too : since I've been tasting the IB array, (with EQ on...) my perception of the right bass quality has been changing.
Obviously, it depends on the size of the stage. On stadiums where performers hear themselves from monitors and listeners see them far away some latency is allowed, but for chamber - style PA I still prefer zero.
Why do you think Renkus-Heinz are concentrating now on dragon tails instead of portable arrays? They know what they are doing...
Why do you think Renkus-Heinz are concentrating now on dragon tails instead of portable arrays? They know what they are doing...
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Bob Katz, "the art of mastering"
Not really, eqing does make sense during mixing, not really before. It's all about balance and psychoacoustics facts. Eqing an instrument by itself means nothing without the others it's playing with.
EG: a guitar does have bass contents which can fight against the ones present on bass guitar.Mixing them as is will give a muddy sound which you can't have the bassline cleanly defined and the guitar gimmick being not focused. Cuting the bass in guitar and mix with bass guitar fools our brains and give the feeling guitar have bass and focus and bass guitar is not muddied and clearly defined.
But this is clearly OT. Eqing a mix is directly in line with premastering process and as Wintermute said is :
A lot of acoustical designers will tell you that a coffee table will degrade the imaging due to specular reflections that are too close time wise to the initial wavefront, so I have to think that a large mixing board causes the same sorts of problems.
What is a typical listening room? I have never heard of a definition for that..... Sheet rock walls? Plaster? Cinder block? Suspended ceiling? Sheet rock.... concrete cloor? Plywood covered with carpet? Thickness of carpet? pad? Hardwood floor? Lots of windows? Book shelves? Window area? Window treatments? Type?
What type of Monitors? Electronics?
If we really believe that a cap or type of feedbck or wire and on and on can affect the sound do we really believe that given the number of degrees of freedom between our listening room and recording studio for a given recording will ever match? Really?
I do think that bad graphic eq gives creates a mindset that eq is bad. Yet the Freq response is a first order effect on the amount of information that can be gotten from the recording.
We should trust our own aesthetic judgement about what sounds "right" to us in our room and through our equipment.
What is a typical listening room? I have never heard of a definition for that..... Sheet rock walls? Plaster? Cinder block? Suspended ceiling? Sheet rock.... concrete cloor? Plywood covered with carpet? Thickness of carpet? pad? Hardwood floor? Lots of windows? Book shelves? Window area? Window treatments? Type?
What type of Monitors? Electronics?
If we really believe that a cap or type of feedbck or wire and on and on can affect the sound do we really believe that given the number of degrees of freedom between our listening room and recording studio for a given recording will ever match? Really?
I do think that bad graphic eq gives creates a mindset that eq is bad. Yet the Freq response is a first order effect on the amount of information that can be gotten from the recording.
We should trust our own aesthetic judgement about what sounds "right" to us in our room and through our equipment.
I did a bit more searching this morning and found a thread on another forum where a recording engineer was relating his experiences. What he basically said was that he would listen to the mix in as many different places (car, club, various living rooms and home theaters etc) as possible and that if it sounded bad in any of them he hadn't done the job properly and would go back and make some more changes. Of course I didn't bookmark it and now can't find it (not even in my browsing history), but this guy is saying something similar in the third paragraph Home Studio Acoustic Treatment
Yes this is probably drifting off topic somewhat, but the original thread title is pretty general so anything related to why an audiophile might not like EQ is probably still on topic
Tony.
Yes this is probably drifting off topic somewhat, but the original thread title is pretty general so anything related to why an audiophile might not like EQ is probably still on topic
Tony.
as said, some may have far worse problems that those of a simple graphic EQ
whether its because they are told that what they hear is the reality of poor recordings, or that its the way it has to be, and the truth of reality, or what ever
I think it would be a shame if anyone choose to endure poor sound, just because of that
ofcourse people can make whatever choise they want
its a free world, so far
personally, I have been through that too
and I still can't bare the sight of multiple controls and switches
I have finally learned how to build the speakers needed for that
but it hasn't always been like that
guess I have wasted too many years being an audiophile 'believer'
but now, anything that sounds nice is fine with me
I can't bare listening to crappy sound
and I don't care if it was intended to sound that way
but if it sounds bad, I seriously doubt it
I remember something about Pink Floyd getting a painful shock the first time they heard some of their own early CD recordings
from what I know, it even took some time before they realized it
makes one wonder
I think I have seen a kind of riia like curcuit designed especially to restore the sound of early CD's
I did a bit more searching this morning and found a thread on another forum where a recording engineer was relating his experiences. What he basically said was that he would listen to the mix in as many different places (car, club, various living rooms and home theaters etc) as possible and that if it sounded bad in any of them he hadn't done the job properly and would go back and make some more changes. Of course I didn't bookmark it and now can't find it (not even in my browsing history), but this guy is saying something similar in the third paragraph Home Studio Acoustic Treatment
Yes this is probably drifting off topic somewhat, but the original thread title is pretty general so anything related to why an audiophile might not like EQ is probably still on topic
Tony.
You have identified a really big problem with recordings as they are currently made. In making the recordings sound good in all these areas (don't forget mp3's on the ipod) they tend to use compression to limit dynamic range which destroys one of the most important aspects of a live performance.
See this page from the blog you reference:
Apple Logic Pro & Audio Compression
Why should we accept the aesthetic judgement of recording engineers who rob the music of it's life using compression so a recording will sound good on a car radio or on MTV?
One of the reasons why we all need to be able to objectify or back up with science our beliefs, that I think people often inadvertently forget, is because of the power of suggestion. I don't care how smart you think you are, we are all susceptible to it. If we believe that a dylithium crystal and flux capacitor are inside of a preamp (deep in special oil), we will think it sounds better. I think you get the point. As they say, "Don't always believe what you think". See if you can back it up. Plus, we don't all hear the same. The differences are allegedly more than just frequency response. Not everybody can hear what some can.
Listening rooms obviously vary quite a bit, but one thing that is common to many (probably most) is that they will cause significant (often substantial) cancellations at several different places in frequency (at any listening location in the room), and may even include some resonance at one or more frequencies. The frequencies and amounts will vary, but most typical listening rooms will do serious damage to the sound in several ways, not the least of which is frequency response.
A good recording engineer can not predict at what frequencies your particular room will have significant anomolies, only that it is likely to have some. It could be argued that he has to give you something in the vicinity of flat as he knows it, and rely on you, the the end listener, to deal with any EQ needs your particular listening room acoustics may present. If you like to listen at lower than real life levels like I usually do, some variation of a reverse Fletcher-Munson curve can be real nice. Ultimately, for me anyway, it's about enjoyment. When it sounds good, it is good. Scientifically recognized analysis only goes so far.
EQing is for a good result in many environments is normal, good working practice. The crushing of dynamics is marketing driven and has nothing to do with mp3 or such like. Sadly these days many artists insist on over-compressing ('I want my song to be as louder than xyz's')
Every recording engineer I have ever met hates over-compressing much more than audiophiles but they provide a service and have to provide what the client (record company and/or artist) wants or starve.
Zoran Mikeski
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/190824-why-audiophiles-hate-equalizers-24.html
why audiophiles hate equalizers ? - Page 24 - diyAudio
www.diyaudio.com
Hello , OK, i dont recall seeing that before, a few questions.. * Is that on axis or summed ..? * what is the measuring distance..? * what are you
12 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · · Share
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Zoran Mikeski too much chats for nothing...i just wait mine to be threated as i like
2 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
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Zoran Mikeski USING EQ IS NOT SOMETHING AS DRUG USE...ALL U CAN. NO GAIL REMAINS
59 seconds ago · LikeUnlike
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Zoran Mikeski BUT 99% U HAVE 2 ROTATORS TITS
18 seconds ago · Like
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/190824-why-audiophiles-hate-equalizers-24.html
why audiophiles hate equalizers ? - Page 24 - diyAudio
www.diyaudio.com
Hello , OK, i dont recall seeing that before, a few questions.. * Is that on axis or summed ..? * what is the measuring distance..? * what are you
12 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · · Share
*
*
*
o
Zoran Mikeski too much chats for nothing...i just wait mine to be threated as i like
2 minutes ago · LikeUnlike
o
Zoran Mikeski USING EQ IS NOT SOMETHING AS DRUG USE...ALL U CAN. NO GAIL REMAINS
59 seconds ago · LikeUnlike
o
Zoran Mikeski BUT 99% U HAVE 2 ROTATORS TITS
18 seconds ago · Like
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