Jack,
I see no reason whatsoever to embroil the unconscious mind in this. For instance, there`s nothing subliminal about the listening fatigue.
I see no reason whatsoever to embroil the unconscious mind in this. For instance, there`s nothing subliminal about the listening fatigue.
That one came up again on Saturday (is there an analogue.com?) I should sign up for the spell checker, I tire of grammar and spell correction when someone has a problem with what you are saying.
jkeny,
there has been a basic agreement on this since Descartes (1596-1650) through Hume, Locke and Kant. Since you are an Irishman I`d like to mention George Berkeley as well, he was, however, a faithful servant of the church and did not take the necessary objective scientific stance. (Well, Descartes had a religious faith too).
there has been a basic agreement on this since Descartes (1596-1650) through Hume, Locke and Kant. Since you are an Irishman I`d like to mention George Berkeley as well, he was, however, a faithful servant of the church and did not take the necessary objective scientific stance. (Well, Descartes had a religious faith too).
What happened to the digital amp revolution, is what started the thread. Since no-one has any speculative or informative answer, there is no need to return here.
I think a lot of what's been discussed here is entirely relevant to the digital amp revolution. That is everyone is free to make up their own mind. It seems that nothing else really needs to be said then this.
Technically speaking the class D revolution is happening in the consumer market and is most likely ever increasing its popularity as the amplifier of choice.
In the tiny audiophile niche, it has a strong foot hold too, but just like every other product within this niche, there will be people who like them and people who don't. By and large, the majority of these audiophiles don't really care about absolute measured performance, so if the subjective qualities of something appeal them, they will go for it. There are lots of people who adore the sound of the low powered tripath chip amps.
If by revolution though, it was supposed to really mean constantly in your face and the buzz word that drops of every ones tongue, then sure, this has died down in the last few years, but that's the same with any new and now, readily available, technology.
Technically speaking the class D revolution is happening in the consumer market and is most likely ever increasing its popularity as the amplifier of choice.
In the tiny audiophile niche, it has a strong foot hold too, but just like every other product within this niche, there will be people who like them and people who don't. By and large, the majority of these audiophiles don't really care about absolute measured performance, so if the subjective qualities of something appeal them, they will go for it. There are lots of people who adore the sound of the low powered tripath chip amps.
If by revolution though, it was supposed to really mean constantly in your face and the buzz word that drops of every ones tongue, then sure, this has died down in the last few years, but that's the same with any new and now, readily available, technology.
I don't see it happening. What I actually see, they disagree about which subjectively selected measurements are more objective. 😉
I think the key measurements for the high end niche are ones by which digital amps intrinsically fall short- weight, size, heat, and cost.
Amusing no one mentioned music servers, ethernet distribution, USB, digital XO, and digital volume control (as e.g. CS/PGA 3310)
=> http://bwgroup-support.com/downloads/reference/classe/CP-800_White_Paper.pdf
(duh, what is that with me and the can brand)
=> http://bwgroup-support.com/downloads/reference/classe/CP-800_White_Paper.pdf
(duh, what is that with me and the can brand)
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I would add here what I value more: digital processors like Audissey by Denon. It is closer to "Digital Revolution" topic than class D amps.
AFAIR, the man who started this movement was called Donkey Hot? 🙂
I remember reading, he tried to destroy wind driven power stations, because he believed that solar batteries are more progressive.
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Hmm...
I come back to this discussion occasionally to see where it has gone, because although at this point I do prefer class A/B and class A amps, I have a fair amount of listening experience with ICE and Hypex based class D designs.
It appears that some here are speaking a lot about measurements, I thought this was an interesting statement in that regard:
"If they sound different, then at least one of them is not high fidelity system. The basic criteria for them used to be frequency range of 20Hz-20kHz and all distortions and noise kept below audible levels of human ear."
The above does not even mention time based distortions-music is specifically time based. AFAIK, the only traditional measurements for time domain performance of amplifiers have been single frequency square wave response-this is an overly simplistic measurement compared to a a music signal.
Another point on measurements and class D-no one here seems to have mentioned the presence of the switching residuals on the output of class D amplifiers. Even if we look solely at measurements, this is an area where class D amps clearly have a "problem" which does not exist in class A/B and class A. I can hear class D supporters saying the residuals do not matter, becuase they are inaudible and/or filtered out by the speaker itself, but certainly those to whom a fundamentally good set of measurements matter must be "bothered" by the switching residual.
I come back to this discussion occasionally to see where it has gone, because although at this point I do prefer class A/B and class A amps, I have a fair amount of listening experience with ICE and Hypex based class D designs.
It appears that some here are speaking a lot about measurements, I thought this was an interesting statement in that regard:
"If they sound different, then at least one of them is not high fidelity system. The basic criteria for them used to be frequency range of 20Hz-20kHz and all distortions and noise kept below audible levels of human ear."
The above does not even mention time based distortions-music is specifically time based. AFAIK, the only traditional measurements for time domain performance of amplifiers have been single frequency square wave response-this is an overly simplistic measurement compared to a a music signal.
Another point on measurements and class D-no one here seems to have mentioned the presence of the switching residuals on the output of class D amplifiers. Even if we look solely at measurements, this is an area where class D amps clearly have a "problem" which does not exist in class A/B and class A. I can hear class D supporters saying the residuals do not matter, becuase they are inaudible and/or filtered out by the speaker itself, but certainly those to whom a fundamentally good set of measurements matter must be "bothered" by the switching residual.
Yea, like Waki says, I'm too busy doing DIY to post in this thread!
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Me too. I'm busy with class A SE tube prototype for audiophiles, 2x15W output to drive high efficiency stereo speakers, and also with power supply for 4x100W class D amp to drive woofers and subwoofer.
I don't understand how this has anything to with a power amplifier. A loudspeaker with it's filtering and positioning, yes. A wide bandwidth amplifier? No. A voltage appears on the input of the amplifier, as a result of this, a voltage appears on the output. What is it you're trying to say? An amplifier somehow destroys the 'timing'? Either the signal gets there or it doesn't. If it fails to then perhaps the amplifier needs turning on, or maybe thrown in the bin.
That's all I have been doing for the last, few days.
Phase shift in amplifiers?
Good on ya! Well not quiet ALL you've been doing I would hazard a guess 🙂
Actually, I didn't mean original=recording. I was referring to everything between the mechanical>electrical at the musical instrument to the electrical>mechanical at the transducer. ie It is exactly this mechanical to electrical and back again that is the domain of high-fidelity audio. Nothing more and nothing less.
I don't possess an all-or-nothing POV. And IMO the rest of our senses, mood, etc are irrelevant to audio playback. I'm not even sure how a person gets there from here.
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