If it's not a blind test, it's a bit meaningless isn't it? And it's difficult to arrange a blind test without the 'giveaway' of the special sounds associated with vinyl (stylus hits record, encounters some dust and a scratch etc.).
Even if you dismiss that as mere scientific nit picking, someone a few comments back said that real, live music can sound a bit harsh on the ears, and the smoothed, anodyne sounds you get from LPs (it's part of the mastering process - see here: Chicago Mastering Service--CD and Vinyl Mastering Facility in Chicago, IL) may be preferred by some people. I think that's probably true.
And as for this stuff about people's opinion of stereo image etc., I'll bet that if you played your audience a completely mono track from an LP, they would still say it had marvellous "depth" and "image". (Here's a thought: presumably the noise, dust and scratches from an LP are 'stereo' in that they affect left and right differently? They may actually add 'stereo' interest to a mono soundtrack..?)
Edit: just listened to some vinyl that I once transferred to the evil digital domain, and yes, the noise and scratches are 'in stereo'. Not a classical track with very wide dynamic range, so not the ultimate test, but it sounds pretty good - except in the quiet bits.
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Already posted that.
1. Accuracy (digital with error correction will always be more accurate then the analog, when you add the fact that you can process the digital signal in so many ways then you have something that is truely accurate with superior response control in room)
2. Portability/Flexibity (obvious isn't it??)
3. Profitability (Its a fraction of the cost to make a CD and CDs will disappear because its a fraction the CDs cost to just download)
4. longevity (99% of all LPs sounded like crap over time wear and tear, No one cared about the 1% that babied their LPs. Its about the majority).
This has never been a discussion about what anyone likes to hear either, its about business, audio science and evolution of how people listen to music. You love LPs, then just enjoy your LPs the other 99% of will not care what you do or how many times you post online that your LPs listening experience is superior. Which is not superior to other experiences. My Ipod/headphones music listening experience is just as good for me You have to really understand what that means though, Im pretty sure you just said "No way" but keywords are "For me". There is no way to argue one experience is better then the other experience so they are equal weighted experiences.
I absolutely hate sitting in a room with vinyl, no playlist, no real control over the environment at all. My experience with vinyl is like pulling teeth and its about the same as your experience with Ipod so its all equal but different for each of us.
Digitial medium is here to stay (again for obvious reasons) and analog will have its 1% market share....does anyone outside of the 1% fighting for it here care??
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Yeah, and that has been a trap for many socalled sound engineers who made a mess of fine analog recordings by misusing digital reediting techniques. I have yet to hear a digitally remastered recording sounding better than the original.
OK, I'd say that 2,3 & 4 don't matter to how it sounds.
Number 1 has some validity, but we're talking CD here, not the entire digital realm. (Or so I thought - see thread title).
By this logic then MP3, and at one time cheap 45s or cassettes, were superior. They certainly sold a lot, were convenient and profitable. But is that what's being discussed here? I thought it was about how they sound.
BTW, no need to convince me of the convenience of digital. That's why I run a music server.
Number 1 has some validity, but we're talking CD here, not the entire digital realm. (Or so I thought - see thread title).
By this logic then MP3, and at one time cheap 45s or cassettes, were superior. They certainly sold a lot, were convenient and profitable. But is that what's being discussed here? I thought it was about how they sound.
BTW, no need to convince me of the convenience of digital. That's why I run a music server.
Two different topics. No arguement at all on what can be screwed up by an engineer.
What Im talking about is what we can process in room. If everything is in the digital domain until it hits the amp then we have incredible control over the whole chain. From active speakers to room correction and curve settings. That is what a call a superior technology.
That's what I love about sitting in a room with vinyl. No annoying skipping around to different tracks or switching to another in the middle of one. The most annoying audio device ever invented is the shuffle button on a cd player. Cd players are more suited to control freaks and adolescent types with short attention spans than to real music lovers.
John
We are talking about a CD player vs a turntable? no?? CD players can keep the content in the digital domain, no?
How something sounds? it depends on the recording and the quality of the LP?? The assumptions here are using best recordings for LPs and crap recordings for CD which makes the assessment unfair. Its also using subjective sound preference selection (not Sound Quality comparisons)
Honestly I will not even argue that LPs sound great to you, I would even agree that they sound better then CDs to you. That has never been the arguement. Only a few have the LP setups that can give a quality sound and only have a few have LPs not damaged by wear and tear. What about the rest of the LPs that are scratched and the setups that make all that static sound?? My position is that the majority sound like crap and if you compare those to most CD setups which are easy to have then CD wins easily even in subjective sound comparisons.
There are a lot of IFs in terms of having a good LP setup vs Its damn easy to setup a quality CD setup and use it over and over and over without issues happening.
This has been brought up a couple of times in this thread, and I'm a little confused. How or why is this something exclusive to digital? That seems to be the implication.
I create 100 song playlist... NEVER jump around.
lmao, real music lover? Yeah...that is what it comes down too doesn't it. You think you do something real and we don't 🙄
The truth comes out...Im okay with not being in the secret handshake society of your real music lovers. They are not cool, they can not play sports or pick up girls and they usually are the ugliest guys you ever meet with no idea about personal style (half never even got married, scary stuff). I definitely okay with not being part of that sad club. I will be one of those non-real music lovers and still travel the world instead of sitting in a lonely dark room listening to a needle scratching vinyl...boring life!!
A few pages ago someone posted something about how the audiophile term is a dirty one in the real world. Well you are exactly the reason why most audiophiles are truely despised (outside of your circles).
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Never posted it was exclusive just posted that its better if it stays in the digital domain. Meaning, ADC -> DAC does not have to happen
I certainly went thru that phase with the music server. Too easy to hit the "next" button, or find something else, never just listen. It takes some discipline and patience to get past this. I did it by selecting an album at random and just listening to the whole thing. No "cheating" allowed. 😉 It's actually quite rewarding. I found this much easier to do with classical albums than anything else. A matter of taste, I suppose.
Well I wasn't assuming that. Must have missed that point.
No argument from me on that point! Digital is much easier, often cheaper. And yet my little eBay Pioneer turntable with a Shure cart is a pleasure to listen to. Just wish my records weren't so beat. 🙁
Its awesome you have great pleasure listening to it. Do you feel the discussion is an attack on your pleasure? If you do, then why do you not think others saying "real music lover" crap isnt attack on everyone that does not listen to Vinyl??
Listening to music is the pure enjoyment and it should NOT matter what medium its played on. A REAL AUDIOPHILE, REAL music lover actually understand this the rest are just imposters.
The last sentence pretty much sums up my point made over and over. 😉
Apparently, I'm not a "real" music lover. Ah, well, that's good news, I can stop spending all this money on concerts.
Thank you for that question. 🙂
See the middle slider that moves to the left and to the right.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
When I match the records through the headphones - left TT, right CD - see the PFL section - the lower knob selects left or right source for the headphones only or mixes both.
And when the two sources TT and CD are playing the same I begin switching between them with the slider.
My test audience does not know what they listen to - a CD or a TT, I change sources with the slider. And I ask better or worse. I even ask tricky questions - only quickly reduce the volume and back to normal level and ask again - that is lie scale, to know how dependable is the audience.
Luckily I am new to vinyl and I have some brand new records which if are cleaned with the special solution and brushed throughly just before playing do not show any signs or whatsoever that vinyl is played. - And that is the funniest part of it all - more clarity... Actually the LP sounds as clean as a good digital record should sound 😉
My "test group" consists of many different people from 22 year old group member through totally not warned people through my friends, 50+ year old people loving music to 65 year old audiphile and some relatives and a girlfriend. 🙂
Vinyl=Better Everything according to everyone.
Not trying to hound you, but here is your entire quote:
I'll drop it cuz now I'm a little more than a little confused.
Now if you really meant:
Yes, I'm already aware of that. Your first quoted above was used to reinforce your argument, "That's what a [sic] call a superior technology."
I'll drop it cuz now I'm a little more than a little confused.
I guess Im not sure what you are reading different.
Where do you assume I posted "exclusive to the digital domain" I never posted that it was exclusive to the digital domain.
Im cool with clarifying but I need to know what you are assuming? I also know you are not hounding me 😀
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The should and will be true in most cases these days. This is not under dispute.
Play them 1000 times then do the test.
Not at all. I like digital. On a day to day basis, I prefer it. But I don't let that preference cloud my hearing; I know that vinyl often sounds very, very good. As good or better than CD (or 44.1/16, if you like). I'm not a vinylhead for many reasons - mainly because I want to get on with my life. But I still think LPs sound damn good. That's my point.
I agree with everything you just posted. Minus the issues that happen with daily usage at some point they start to sound like crap.
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