• WARNING: Tube/Valve amplifiers use potentially LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGES.
    Building, troubleshooting and testing of these amplifiers should only be
    performed by someone who is thoroughly familiar with
    the safety precautions around high voltages.

Dared 5.1 tube amp

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#2
This isn't SE. It's a couple of 12AX7 cathode followers driving some class D chip-amps. It also looks like the left and right channels run in opposite phase. I wonder if they're swapped at the speaker terminals. That's a pretty odd design choice in my opinion.

It's fairly clear that the 6-moons reviewer is pretty clueless about tube circuits. I wouldn't put much faith in that review simply because of that fact. The whole review and ebay listing reek of marketing drivel.

I have no personal experience with the amp, but I do have a critical eye for marketing speak and the ability to read and analyze circuit schematics.

~Tom
 
#3
Now you know why I ask everything in here.

The 3 tubes are for 6 channels. Each uses 1/2 of the 12ax7 tube. Would that not be SE ?
Yea its like a tube pre with a chip power amp, I guess I should have said that in the post.
The terminals have some klugy looking wire with binding posts. Very tacky IMHO.
Cool.
Srinath.
 
#4
srinath said:
Now you know why I ask everything in here.

The 3 tubes are for 6 channels. Each uses 1/2 of the 12ax7 tube. Would that not be SE ?
Yea its like a tube pre with a chip power amp, I guess I should have said that in the post.
The terminals have some klugy looking wire with binding posts. Very tacky IMHO.
Cool.
Srinath.
Click to expand...

No. The 12AX7s are simply the input amp for the solid state amps used to drive the speakers. Basically, the 12AX7s add a little harmonic distortion to give you that tube-ish sound. Looks pretty, but yuck.
 
#5
srinath said:
The 3 tubes are for 6 channels. Each uses 1/2 of the 12ax7 tube. Would that not be SE ?
Click to expand...

In a tube context single ended (SE) refers to the output stage. An SE stage has a single tube (or multiple tubes in parallel acting as one big single tube) driving one single end of the output transformer primary winding. The other end of the output transformer primary is connected to a high voltage supply. The tube is operated in class A (i.e. current continuously flows through the tube even at the extremes of the signal level).

Now outside of vacuum tube context single ended refers to a circuit where ground is used as a reference for the signal. If this is the context you want "SE" to be interpreted within, then you are correct. The amp you linked to is single ended. But then, so is an LM741 when hooked up as a regular inverting or non-inverting amp. 99.999 % of consumer HiFi is single ended.

~Tom
 
#8
Why is it that every Chinese factory is taking a bog-standard SS amp and putting a valve in front of it, usually as just a cathode follower (but sometimes not even in the circuit!)? Could it be that they have heard that a Westerner and his money are soon parted? Have they sussed that one aspect of the dying days of a civilisation is that people are obsessed with appearance rather than substance, with fashion rather than performance?

All this nonsense gets a bad name for genuine valve circuits, which most people have never heard (apart perhaps from a seriously overdriven guitar amp).
 
#9
DF96 said:
Why is it that every Chinese factory is taking a bog-standard SS amp and putting a valve in front of it, usually as just a cathode follower (but sometimes not even in the circuit!)? Could it be that they have heard that a Westerner and his money are soon parted? Have they sussed that one aspect of the dying days of a civilisation is that people are obsessed with appearance rather than substance, with fashion rather than performance?

All this nonsense gets a bad name for genuine valve circuits, which most people have never heard (apart perhaps from a seriously overdriven guitar amp).
Click to expand...

Agreed.. Applies in their domestic market as well however. Could it also be that some cheap cold sounding class d amps need warming up with a tube stage designed to generate lots of even harmonics to be palatable to even the below average ear? (I was commissioned years ago to do this with some trendy and very expensive 1kW class D amp modules from a certain major that must rename nameless. Those modules sit till this day in my garage..)

The hyperbole in that eBay auction is just a little more than over the top, sets a new high in lows?? 😛

Marketing (as) a fashion statement.

Horrifyingly it might sound better than the average cheap surround receiver, but that's not really saying much.

Makes me just want to rush out and buy one of these to replace all of the carefully engineered electronics I have been working on for most of the past decade.. 🙄

To put it in (my) perspective I spend more on OPTs for a stereo SE amp than this entire thing cost.. 😀
 
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#10
DF96 said:
Why is it that every Chinese factory is taking a bog-standard SS amp and putting a valve in front of it, usually as just a cathode follower (but sometimes not even in the circuit!)?
Click to expand...

Because they've figured out that tubes sell. Then they pack the listing with a bunch of audiophool marketing drivel that in some cases doesn't even comply with the laws of physics and people buy it. Most people don't have a technical background and the ability to tell a scam from a good deal. The ones that have a bit of a clue ask here for an opinion before they buy. The rest just get ripped off.

It's really no different from the vendors of other audiophool gear. Cable burn-in machines anybody?

The sellers rely on people's emotional response to separate them from their money. Just like any other advertiser.

Also beware that some of the eBay sellers seem to lurk on the various forums (including this one) and defend the products with statements like "oh, you really need to own one to know what it sounds like. Just because the amp defies the laws of physics according to the eBay listing doesn't mean it doesn't sound good".

~Tom
 
#11
Look on the bright side - so long as these guys can sell lots of tube amps who cares - it may possibly help drive market interest in tube amps in general and when the people who can't afford expensive amps become rich (which in china will happen) they will upgrade and learn about good tube amps. And in the meantime, their spending may help keep tube amp related components and the tubes themselves in a healthy state of production.

It's a good thing that this is happening - stops tube from being dying things. Heck, it's already easier to buy tubes than some old SS components.
 
#12
Bigun said:
Look on the bright side - so long as these guys can sell lots of tube amps who cares - it may possibly help drive market interest in tube amps in general and when the people who can't afford expensive amps become rich (which in china will happen) they will upgrade and learn about good tube amps. And in the meantime, their spending may help keep tube amp related components and the tubes themselves in a healthy state of production.

It's a good thing that this is happening - stops tube from being dying things. Heck, it's already easier to buy tubes than some old SS components.
Click to expand...


That's a very positive way of looking at things and true. Driving demand for new tubes keeps plants open that might not otherwise be. I remember a couple of decades ago when the consensus was we hobbyists had better get our stashes in order because there wasn't going to be any tube production in the future - that's markedly changed in recent years.

I have noted in lot of cases it is much easier to get parts to repair ancient tube amps than it is to get a part for a 10yr old receiver..
 
#13
I think things like tube amps carry more of a status symbol thing in china than it does here. average chinese listeners tend to buy more tubes stuff than average say.. american. therefor the price reflect that - more cheap tube equip.
 
#14
<rant>
Trust me on this: In Chinese culture, status and bling (and maybe some superstition) are the only meaningful marketing methodologies that work. And if it's cheap (fake or garbage quality), so much the better, as long it looks appropriate, it sends the right message.

They just don't 'get' quality. It doesn't compute.
</rant>

Qualification: I spend a lot of time there visiting the in-laws.

..Todd
 
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#15
taj said:
<rant>
Trust me on this: In Chinese culture, status and bling (and maybe some superstition) are the only meaningful marketing methodologies that work. And if it's cheap (fake or garbage quality), so much the better, as long it looks appropriate, it sends the right message.

They just don't 'get' quality. It doesn't compute.
</rant>

Qualification: I spend a lot of time there visiting the in-laws.

..Todd
Click to expand...

I don't think it's much different here ... how many people boast their latest micro-system boasts 1000watt (peak maximum power, down hill with the wind behind it, into a cocked hat), plays any format audio ... and laugh at my SE 4 watt amp my turntable and CD player...

And the Chinese CAN do quality , some of their tubes are stunning ... but sometimes it's a lottery for those of us who can't actually identify a good Chinese tube from a bad one... until it's too late. That's why I prefer Russian stuff if I'm buying current production, it may not be the greatest , but it is repeatable.

I recently had a Chinese 2A3 SE amp in for repair ..One of the 2A3's had flashed over and done a little damage. Volume pot was wired wrong, an easy fix once I could get to the thing! It proudly boasted a 5U4GB rectifier , but had bucket full of capacitance ... hidden under the choke was a S/S bridge rectifier! The only connection to the 5U4GB was the heater. Just there for show! It actually wasn't bad once put right, and the "flashy" 2A3 settled down, and performed OK.... and it was dirt cheap on eBay.

Out of a percentage of population of any given nation, how many like "real" hi-fi (sand or glass) ... and how many people are happy with an ear-pod stuck in a docking station? I would reckon there's little difference between any of us, as a nation.

Bling/fashion, call it what you will, it still means there is an industry out there ... when we stop being able to buy tubes and bases, we are stuffed - regardless of quality.

Just my 1p's worth.

God bless the Chinese ... keep sucking the air out guys 😉
 
#16
Oddly marketing hype and flashy crap items mostly turns me right off. The music angel with the wood trim and the engraving and the shiny tubes etc make me want to roll it down a hill before even plugging it in. What's an amp with out a few battle scars. I mean it shouldn't be beat to hell, but some scrapes and nicks and dirt actually give me the idea it is actually working. Yea the dared is pretty much the same, And I guess I wont be dared to buy one of those.
Cool.
Srinath.
 
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