Hello John
What does Dr. Toole have to do with the Lexicon mess that some corporate types approved and orchestrated?? Do you think he was involved considering he is retired from Harmon?? Nothing matters?? Have you read his book and the numerous AES papers that it is based on?? Let's not confuse the issues here.
Do you have any books/papers published. I would be interested to read them.
Rob
Mail them to me, I'd be glad to post them. I'm sure others would gladly help as well. Attaching files to this forum is much like using a wordprocessor.
LCR measurements are not much different than the cables I normally use.
Actually the cables belong to a friend, he fitted them with some nice RCA connectors.
I will let your collection of posts answer the moron part but maybe you do not actually have good hearing. Speakers have a combing filter, read about it
You must be a subjectivist to realise that.
Fallible or not, that is all we have and all that matter. If our auditory system perceive soundfields different than a microphone, no amount of arguments will change the way we hear. Once again, I'm not against measurements, they are very usefull tools but that is where it ends.
Measure the interchannel correlation in level and delay.
Expect the level changes to be far less than half a db, expect the timing changes to be within the 2 to 5 uSec range.
The numbers can be easily calculated for ideal ears given the system geometry, but the research to factor in the non-ideal reality of human hearing is not yet there.
Or, you could simply use that program material as part of a dbt..with a focus on the sound of his fingers on the strings...
Cheers, John
Newborns also see the world upside down until the brain learns to flip the image.
If one were to wear a blindfold for a certain minimum length of time the image one sees on removing the blindfold is also upside down for awhile until the brain adjusts to reality again.
The senses are notoriously fickle and one sees, hears and feels what ones subconscious thinks one should see, hear and feel. No amount of training can completely eradicate expectation bias and no one is ever above it.
If one were to wear a blindfold for a certain minimum length of time the image one sees on removing the blindfold is also upside down for awhile until the brain adjusts to reality again.
The senses are notoriously fickle and one sees, hears and feels what ones subconscious thinks one should see, hear and feel. No amount of training can completely eradicate expectation bias and no one is ever above it.
gentlemen....
Model an unbalanced system using one pre, Two IC's, one amp, all three prong ac cords.
Now, with the pre pushing right channel 1 volt DC into the amp, what path is the return current taking to get back to the pre?
90% of it is NOT returning via the IC shield. It is returning by the line cord ground. The last 10%...half by the right shield, half by the left.
At 1Khz, how is the current returning? Less by way of the line cord ground, and still 50-50 split in the return shields.
At 1Mhz, how is the return current getting back?
By the shield of the IC that is driven. No longer a 50-50 split.
The return current path is dependent on which path has the lowest impedance to the current. At lowest frequencies, it is the line cord.
The next statement is very important:
A shielded IC cable cannot shield from external influences if the net current within the IC is NOT ZERO..
Model this, figure out the break frequencies. Understand what is actually happening to the currents.
Cheers, John
Model an unbalanced system using one pre, Two IC's, one amp, all three prong ac cords.
Now, with the pre pushing right channel 1 volt DC into the amp, what path is the return current taking to get back to the pre?
90% of it is NOT returning via the IC shield. It is returning by the line cord ground. The last 10%...half by the right shield, half by the left.
At 1Khz, how is the current returning? Less by way of the line cord ground, and still 50-50 split in the return shields.
At 1Mhz, how is the return current getting back?
By the shield of the IC that is driven. No longer a 50-50 split.
The return current path is dependent on which path has the lowest impedance to the current. At lowest frequencies, it is the line cord.
The next statement is very important:
A shielded IC cable cannot shield from external influences if the net current within the IC is NOT ZERO..
Model this, figure out the break frequencies. Understand what is actually happening to the currents.
Cheers, John
For some audiophiles, into their sixties.How old are the babies you are talking about?
Don't be so logical about it all....we wouldnt have this banter for another thousand pages
Libel?? Give me a break, be a man and put up or shut up....real men dont get into a little hissy fit if called a liar. They either prove it wrong or it just the truth.
You posted you have measurements and then you refuse to post them. You even used these phantom measurements to try and point out that measurements do not equate to great sound. I would suspect your bias gets in the way and you are one of those guys that likes only one or two speakers period. Again, that has zero to do with Sound Quality and everything to do with your own inabilities.
You posted about trying to educate someone else but I think you are the one that needs speaker design education so instead of worrying about someone else's box measurements maybe its time to post those measurements so someone can teach you all about them. Otherwise your questioning of someone else is disingenuous. You do this all the time in this thread....passive agressive and when called out you start crying foul.
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There's a brand new invention, called "balanced line". Maybe it could be applied to "audiophile grade" gear too?
There's a brand new invention, called "balanced line". Maybe it could be applied to "audiophile grade" gear too?
Yup.
Balanced also has it's issues.
The most important thing to understand with balanced is that the currents are assumed gone once they are connected to the chassis. This is inaccurate. What compounds this error is the fact that the initial high reluctance of the DC path the pin 1 current takes through the chassis...drops significantly as the frequency rises. At 1Khz, the path is significantly different than at 20hz. At 20 Khz and 200 Khz, it's much worse.
In addition, balanced cables by virtue of geometry, have an integral common centroid, but neither form a common centroid with the shield in the audio frequency range. Given that all the generic cabling out there for power is twisted pairs generating helical dipole magnetic fields, coupling is virtually guaranteed in the final application.
Too many engineers believe twisting solves it, star grounds solve it, sending currents to chassis solves it, or going pure differential solves it..sigh
Cheers, John
Works for me...
Actually the best option is to understand exactly what the currents are doing as opposed to what we believe they are doing or are "supposed to do".
Modelling the actual current paths is a very simple thing. It's just resistors and inductors. edit(well, at 50Khz up (roughly), the transmission line modelling of the IC will become important.)
Magnetic coupling modelling is far more difficult to do. Most engineers are comfortable with capacitive coupling and not magnetic. Unfortunately, for system impedances below 377 ohms, it's not capacitance that plays the big role. And IC ground shield loops fall below that 377 as well, even if the load at the amp in is 10K.
Cheers, John
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