This hell toroidal transfomer made once again..burned my output!
First picture, see the signal.... i could make the picture and paft, poft pow!..gone the NPN power, and fuse, ahahahahah, the rail fuse ...the positive rail fuse naturally, because the NPN power burned.
Then you see the transistor beeing tested...grumpf!
Before this test i have tested with the ancient transformer and i had no problems.... also i have fixed the amplifier and tested with the ground (center tap) disconnect from chassis...same thing!.... also i have tested once more, using AC from the Toroidal transformer...same thing!..but this time i was faster..nothing burned...camera delays three seconds to focus....cannot stay three second full power with this kind of signal disturbance.
regards,
Carlos
First picture, see the signal.... i could make the picture and paft, poft pow!..gone the NPN power, and fuse, ahahahahah, the rail fuse ...the positive rail fuse naturally, because the NPN power burned.
Then you see the transistor beeing tested...grumpf!
Before this test i have tested with the ancient transformer and i had no problems.... also i have fixed the amplifier and tested with the ground (center tap) disconnect from chassis...same thing!.... also i have tested once more, using AC from the Toroidal transformer...same thing!..but this time i was faster..nothing burned...camera delays three seconds to focus....cannot stay three second full power with this kind of signal disturbance.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Conclusion, this transformer, this unit, my toroidal, a very strong transformer
is not good... will be remove and will used for other purposes..maybe to galvanic metal threatment or other ideas i have...produce oxigen and hydrogen...these things..to be playing with it.
For audio...hehehehehe..this one?....negative!
I have returned to the gray transformer, the old and good transformer that is with me these last 15 years....i can force, do whatever i can..and no problems when using this one.
See the waveform...full power...10 to 15 kilohertz, do not know exactly..the vernier do not show me preciselly the frequency....you can advance the level the way you want..the input level...and will appear a small overshot in the negative semi cicle.
This damned transformer created me a lot of troubles...i remember the DHR Turbo gone without any obvious reason....now i know the reason..that transformer.
regards,
Carlos
is not good... will be remove and will used for other purposes..maybe to galvanic metal threatment or other ideas i have...produce oxigen and hydrogen...these things..to be playing with it.
For audio...hehehehehe..this one?....negative!
I have returned to the gray transformer, the old and good transformer that is with me these last 15 years....i can force, do whatever i can..and no problems when using this one.
See the waveform...full power...10 to 15 kilohertz, do not know exactly..the vernier do not show me preciselly the frequency....you can advance the level the way you want..the input level...and will appear a small overshot in the negative semi cicle.
This damned transformer created me a lot of troubles...i remember the DHR Turbo gone without any obvious reason....now i know the reason..that transformer.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Is your amp using BD139/140 as Vas and drivers?
The output voltage displayed with the "bad" transfo
is perhaps too high for them..
The output voltage displayed with the "bad" transfo
is perhaps too high for them..
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Read once again Wahab...and you again with this old story
39 volts..... BD139 can work till 100 volts.... maximum swing, if the voltage was fixed (it is not..drop when you suck current)...then no more than 60 volts peak to peak.
Read with more carefull.... i have tested the high voltage winding, just to know it is working....the amplifier did not worked with 48 volts Wahab..the amplifier worked with 37 (ancient transformer) and 39 volts (toroidal transformer).
The toroidal transformer has 5 wires in the secondary...the center tap and more 4 wires...it has two output voltages dear Wahab....i can select one or other...i have selected the lowest one... 39 volts one!
Let BD139/140 in peace..they are very good, despite you do not like them.
regards,
Carlos
39 volts..... BD139 can work till 100 volts.... maximum swing, if the voltage was fixed (it is not..drop when you suck current)...then no more than 60 volts peak to peak.
Read with more carefull.... i have tested the high voltage winding, just to know it is working....the amplifier did not worked with 48 volts Wahab..the amplifier worked with 37 (ancient transformer) and 39 volts (toroidal transformer).
The toroidal transformer has 5 wires in the secondary...the center tap and more 4 wires...it has two output voltages dear Wahab....i can select one or other...i have selected the lowest one... 39 volts one!
Let BD139/140 in peace..they are very good, despite you do not like them.
regards,
Carlos
Carlos... a while back I experimented with a little inductive filtering on the DC rails to a power amp. If a dual wound inductor was used, one winding in the positive rail and the other in the negative, a similar thing to what you are seeing happens.
But this was in the DC rails ! Could a similar thing happen on the AC side if the characteristics of the transforemr were "odd"
Perhaps you might 'scope the DC rails under load with the toroid and see if any strange ripple appears.
But this was in the DC rails ! Could a similar thing happen on the AC side if the characteristics of the transforemr were "odd"
Perhaps you might 'scope the DC rails under load with the toroid and see if any strange ripple appears.
People is not stupid Wahab, only an idiot will use 48 volts with one amplifier
designed to work with 36 volts!
Believe me..we all have brain dear Wahab, this is not your priviledge.
The voltage used, the low voltage winding, from the toroidal transformer, is this one you see in the picture..the gray ancient type, the standard transformer, the gray one, the old one, the output is 37 volts.
regards,
Carlos
designed to work with 36 volts!
Believe me..we all have brain dear Wahab, this is not your priviledge.
The voltage used, the low voltage winding, from the toroidal transformer, is this one you see in the picture..the gray ancient type, the standard transformer, the gray one, the old one, the output is 37 volts.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
I have those inductor in my rails..but they are bypassed.
I have a jumper below the board dear Mooly.
I have removed all snubbers, filters, inductors bypasses and all stuff thinking about this as possible..was tested Mooly.
I have tried almost all possibilities Mooly, i have tried other condensers, other rectifiers (read the thread with more carefull, read all posts)... i have removed all snubbers, filters and bypasses..i have even removed this supply you see in the picture..i have tried absolutelly everything (i have not tried the transformer underwatter..ahahahahahah!)
I understand people do not accept...transformer cannot do this!....but you're wrong..it can do this, and it is doing.
regards,
Carlos
I have a jumper below the board dear Mooly.
I have removed all snubbers, filters, inductors bypasses and all stuff thinking about this as possible..was tested Mooly.
I have tried almost all possibilities Mooly, i have tried other condensers, other rectifiers (read the thread with more carefull, read all posts)... i have removed all snubbers, filters and bypasses..i have even removed this supply you see in the picture..i have tried absolutelly everything (i have not tried the transformer underwatter..ahahahahahah!)
I understand people do not accept...transformer cannot do this!....but you're wrong..it can do this, and it is doing.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
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You are wrong in this one...
This were the device i used to use the more,as they were the only ones
available at good price and with good perfs at the time.
Anyway, your transfo is incredible, first time i see such a phenomenon..
Then I'm guessing it has to be in the way the toroid has been wound. You say yourself this transformer causes problems on several different amps... that is evidence enough.
This is not normal for a toroid to cause problems like this... I never heard of it.
This is not normal for a toroid to cause problems like this... I never heard of it.
I forgot to say.... fuse was bypassed too.
It is good to say that..or someone will say the fuse made the mess.
There are very exotic folks that believes fuses can do such kind of thing.
regards,
Carlos
It is good to say that..or someone will say the fuse made the mess.
There are very exotic folks that believes fuses can do such kind of thing.
regards,
Carlos
You know... it is possible that the increased current capability of the toroid is just letting the Vcc supply stay high under load. Under high load, amps can and do become less stable. With the cheapo EI core, the drop under load could be masking a stablity problem. Or in the event that oscillations do start, the cheapo trafo drops enough to act as a soft fuse - limiting the current and saving parts. Sort of like the light bulb limiter is supposed to.
wait just one minute.......
you actually have the wires to the main filter caps solder blobbed inside the threads of the aluminum threaded posts? instead of using screws and terminals? soldering to aluminum doesn't work very well, and i suspect you don't have very reliable connections to those caps. soldering temperatures on aluminum create an oxide layer, and solder will NOT flow to aluminum.
you actually have the wires to the main filter caps solder blobbed inside the threads of the aluminum threaded posts? instead of using screws and terminals? soldering to aluminum doesn't work very well, and i suspect you don't have very reliable connections to those caps. soldering temperatures on aluminum create an oxide layer, and solder will NOT flow to aluminum.
I have tried with other capacitors, different connections where made.
i ensure you that i have tried almost all possibilities (almost).... these condensers where not used all these times, other filters used, other rectifiers, other cases, or used without case....i have tried several ideas.
despite you are rigth about the solder wires in the capacitor ( I have not the screws ) they are not the cause..the same thing happened with several other capacitor filters, also with other rectifier.
The transformer, only the transformer, it the only one i remove and the trouble finished....the transformer, despite no one can accept, have some defect..this one!..not all toroidals.... winding turns, or iron core..or ferrite core.... do not know..defect..unknow to me.
Better to people, that wants to help me, to concentrate the efforts in the transformer, as people dennie the transformer can be the faulting one and concentrate their worries in other parts.thinking i have made a mistake.
I will not answer, anymore, or consider, or take as serious, other suggestions that does not concentrate in the real faulting component.
The transformer is the one is creating troubles.
The transformer is the one is creating troubles.
I hope people stop to be searching for other human failures, as i have checked that stuff several times... even wires where substituted.
Folks, read the thread, read the posts...you gonna realise i have tried several ways.
Rectifiers, solder, connections, resistances in series (fuses), coils, possibility of condensers (replaced my several other ones), rectifiers, case, enclosure, chassis, wire twisted, non twisted...all checked.
Only the transformer, itself, when substituted finish with the problem...the transformer is the part when included in the system, create troubles.
The transformer, not my personnal errors, failures, or bad parts is the one is creating troubles.
regards,
Carlos
i ensure you that i have tried almost all possibilities (almost).... these condensers where not used all these times, other filters used, other rectifiers, other cases, or used without case....i have tried several ideas.
despite you are rigth about the solder wires in the capacitor ( I have not the screws ) they are not the cause..the same thing happened with several other capacitor filters, also with other rectifier.
The transformer, only the transformer, it the only one i remove and the trouble finished....the transformer, despite no one can accept, have some defect..this one!..not all toroidals.... winding turns, or iron core..or ferrite core.... do not know..defect..unknow to me.
Better to people, that wants to help me, to concentrate the efforts in the transformer, as people dennie the transformer can be the faulting one and concentrate their worries in other parts.thinking i have made a mistake.
I will not answer, anymore, or consider, or take as serious, other suggestions that does not concentrate in the real faulting component.
The transformer is the one is creating troubles.
The transformer is the one is creating troubles.
I hope people stop to be searching for other human failures, as i have checked that stuff several times... even wires where substituted.
Folks, read the thread, read the posts...you gonna realise i have tried several ways.
Rectifiers, solder, connections, resistances in series (fuses), coils, possibility of condensers (replaced my several other ones), rectifiers, case, enclosure, chassis, wire twisted, non twisted...all checked.
Only the transformer, itself, when substituted finish with the problem...the transformer is the part when included in the system, create troubles.
The transformer, not my personnal errors, failures, or bad parts is the one is creating troubles.
regards,
Carlos
Out of interest, have you scoped the DC rails when using this transformer with the amp loaded (not to destruction 🙂).
Just to see if anything is happening. That has to be the clue.
Just to see if anything is happening. That has to be the clue.
Carlos, can You try to measure transformer idle consumption (primary idle current), only transformer, secondary disconected and without load?
Or better, try to measure (with scope) primary idle currents , as voltage drop on small resistor -about1ohm- conected in series with neutral AC line.
It seems to me, transformer is saturated under load (bad core quality or to small number of windings).
Or better, try to measure (with scope) primary idle currents , as voltage drop on small resistor -about1ohm- conected in series with neutral AC line.
It seems to me, transformer is saturated under load (bad core quality or to small number of windings).
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Yes Mooly, i have scoped..pure DC..clean DC was the result
The big trouble Mooly, the transformer is destroying transistors, power transistors..i have already lost 15 transistors!...power transistors..so... i do not want anymore test.... the transformer is out!..... i can do tests alike you said, or BV said..but no more with my amplifiers..already created me too much troubles.
I have tried the transformer stand up, layed down, flying (my hand hold it) over the audio board, bellow the audio board, parallel and other angles, i twisted the unit, i have installed in chassis, i have shielded, i have tried without chassis, with ground connected and without ground connected.
Input AC cable substituted, power on switch removed, power plug substituted, fuses bypassed, fuses removed, direct to mains.
Secondary wires replaced, solder (internal into the toroidal) was ressoldered, toroidal almost (partially) dismounted, checked , no shorts, no loosen wires, no strange parts inside, no resistances or capacitors inside, only coils, only winding..i could not inspect the core using nuclear technology, or mass spectrometer (ahahahahah!)...i could not find wires with insulation cracked, no shorts, no hot spots, transfomer is dea cold, super strong, you suck 400 watts and voltage drops 10 percent..a huge, excelent, super power transformer..no shorts to the chassis, transformer is insulated from primary to secondary, no connections and no resistances measurable in between primary and secondary.... all secondary wires fuses removed, solder perfect, checked..no resistance in cables or wires.
Rectifier where tested, substituted by diode bridge... and another second diode bridge... tried other bridge rectifier, and another one, and another third one...tried several filters.... from my main Dx supply i have removed all snubbers, filters, bypass condensers, fuses, and coils in series...also i have removed my Dx Supply and i have installed other condensers.
Combinations, several, between condensers (filters) and rectifiers where used.
Output cable was twisted..not twisted...running parallel, i have changed for higher gauge ones... them i have tested reducing the length... tracing one one over other, twisting them, not twisting them..short, long, medium sized..with ground in the chassis..without ground connected to the chassis.
The only part, when removed, fix the problem, is the transformer..that one..this one, my unit, NOT ALL TOROIDAL FOLKS!, this one seems defective, maybe inductances, maybe core magnetic properties, maybe coil, maybe turns, winding, wire diameter, wire quality, core quality, core size..do not know...reason why i am asking ABOUT TRANSFORMER..and people try to deviate my attention to things already tested.
I am feeling very sad..by the questions...not all them...people think i am an idiot, as people worries about simple things a retarded guy, a stupid guy or a novice is unable to do such kind of foolishes or will never forget to check things people has worries...the transformer, not other parts..the transformer is the trouble.
I will check BV...will take a look Mooly.
I regret to ask that to forum....i am perceiving, sadly, that there are several folks thinks i am retarded..because questions are showing that..or the one makes stupid questions is the retarded one, or worse, the retarded one thinks i am much more retarded than he is.
ahahahahahah!.... tragedy..one retarded thinking you are more than he is is tragic.
By the way, as people may think my amplifier is the problem..i have tried several amplifiers, and not only mine ones..and the problem appeared to all them..so...that transformer once again.... have killed my DHR Turbo, have burned one Dx amplifier and have damaged an Aksa..... several times killed the Dx Blame ES and Dx Blame ST (this one had modifications that turn it more resistant, more strong, more reliable and less subjected to transformer interferences).
Now people will blame the AC mains, the Hydraulical Electricity Generators, street cables, street transformers and other things.... all that not to accept transformers can create problems..when the amenace comes, it is interesting, people dennie, do not accept, do not believe...very interesting that.
I have AC ampere meter BV.
regards,
Carlos
The big trouble Mooly, the transformer is destroying transistors, power transistors..i have already lost 15 transistors!...power transistors..so... i do not want anymore test.... the transformer is out!..... i can do tests alike you said, or BV said..but no more with my amplifiers..already created me too much troubles.
I have tried the transformer stand up, layed down, flying (my hand hold it) over the audio board, bellow the audio board, parallel and other angles, i twisted the unit, i have installed in chassis, i have shielded, i have tried without chassis, with ground connected and without ground connected.
Input AC cable substituted, power on switch removed, power plug substituted, fuses bypassed, fuses removed, direct to mains.
Secondary wires replaced, solder (internal into the toroidal) was ressoldered, toroidal almost (partially) dismounted, checked , no shorts, no loosen wires, no strange parts inside, no resistances or capacitors inside, only coils, only winding..i could not inspect the core using nuclear technology, or mass spectrometer (ahahahahah!)...i could not find wires with insulation cracked, no shorts, no hot spots, transfomer is dea cold, super strong, you suck 400 watts and voltage drops 10 percent..a huge, excelent, super power transformer..no shorts to the chassis, transformer is insulated from primary to secondary, no connections and no resistances measurable in between primary and secondary.... all secondary wires fuses removed, solder perfect, checked..no resistance in cables or wires.
Rectifier where tested, substituted by diode bridge... and another second diode bridge... tried other bridge rectifier, and another one, and another third one...tried several filters.... from my main Dx supply i have removed all snubbers, filters, bypass condensers, fuses, and coils in series...also i have removed my Dx Supply and i have installed other condensers.
Combinations, several, between condensers (filters) and rectifiers where used.
Output cable was twisted..not twisted...running parallel, i have changed for higher gauge ones... them i have tested reducing the length... tracing one one over other, twisting them, not twisting them..short, long, medium sized..with ground in the chassis..without ground connected to the chassis.
The only part, when removed, fix the problem, is the transformer..that one..this one, my unit, NOT ALL TOROIDAL FOLKS!, this one seems defective, maybe inductances, maybe core magnetic properties, maybe coil, maybe turns, winding, wire diameter, wire quality, core quality, core size..do not know...reason why i am asking ABOUT TRANSFORMER..and people try to deviate my attention to things already tested.
I am feeling very sad..by the questions...not all them...people think i am an idiot, as people worries about simple things a retarded guy, a stupid guy or a novice is unable to do such kind of foolishes or will never forget to check things people has worries...the transformer, not other parts..the transformer is the trouble.
I will check BV...will take a look Mooly.
I regret to ask that to forum....i am perceiving, sadly, that there are several folks thinks i am retarded..because questions are showing that..or the one makes stupid questions is the retarded one, or worse, the retarded one thinks i am much more retarded than he is.
ahahahahahah!.... tragedy..one retarded thinking you are more than he is is tragic.
By the way, as people may think my amplifier is the problem..i have tried several amplifiers, and not only mine ones..and the problem appeared to all them..so...that transformer once again.... have killed my DHR Turbo, have burned one Dx amplifier and have damaged an Aksa..... several times killed the Dx Blame ES and Dx Blame ST (this one had modifications that turn it more resistant, more strong, more reliable and less subjected to transformer interferences).
Now people will blame the AC mains, the Hydraulical Electricity Generators, street cables, street transformers and other things.... all that not to accept transformers can create problems..when the amenace comes, it is interesting, people dennie, do not accept, do not believe...very interesting that.
I have AC ampere meter BV.
regards,
Carlos
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As a technician Carlos you don't like mysteries... you want to know... to find the answer 🙂 I would too 😉
You could perhaps rig up just the transformer feeding a normal PSU (rectifier/ caps) but no amplifier connected.
Then put across the negative rail a load (resistor drawing few hundred ma).
On the positive rail connect a power transistor and resistor as load and feed the base with HF squarewave to "pulse" the supply.
Then scope the negative rail and see if anything is "reflected" back.
Can't think of anything else to advise... whether that would prove anything I don't know.
It would be interesting to find the answer... things like this expand our knowledge and understanding.
You could perhaps rig up just the transformer feeding a normal PSU (rectifier/ caps) but no amplifier connected.
Then put across the negative rail a load (resistor drawing few hundred ma).
On the positive rail connect a power transistor and resistor as load and feed the base with HF squarewave to "pulse" the supply.
Then scope the negative rail and see if anything is "reflected" back.
Can't think of anything else to advise... whether that would prove anything I don't know.
It would be interesting to find the answer... things like this expand our knowledge and understanding.
My interest on that subject is to know if someone have experienced that
...and as a result i have perceive that people thinks we are stupid.
I am not interested to really be a transformer builder or designer, will not open a factory and i do not want to inspect the subject with magnified lenses.
The transformer have bothered me a lot, have killed several precious parts and have wasted my time.
To me, much better is to stop loosing my time, to junk the transformer and to continue to build my amplifier with the other transformers i have.
I am not interested in transformers or in electricity anymore.
I see that no one have experienced that, so i am the bad luck guy that receive a gift (was a gift this Trojan Horse.... A Greek gift... the way we call here.... from a Brazilian that gave me a Greek gift)... so... the unit is defective, bad coiled or other thing that really do not interests me anymore.
Will close the subject and will stop to loose my time.... this conversation is making me angry, as i could see (not all Mooly, not you), that people thinks we are retarded.
The thread acomplished the task, the thread opener (me) is very satisfied..if you want to talk with yourselves..go ahead...i will buid amplifiers.
ahahahahaha!.... it is enougth to me..too much waste of precious time of my life having concerns about the transformer..it will go to the garbage can and finished the subject.
regards,
Carlos
...and as a result i have perceive that people thinks we are stupid.
I am not interested to really be a transformer builder or designer, will not open a factory and i do not want to inspect the subject with magnified lenses.
The transformer have bothered me a lot, have killed several precious parts and have wasted my time.
To me, much better is to stop loosing my time, to junk the transformer and to continue to build my amplifier with the other transformers i have.
I am not interested in transformers or in electricity anymore.
I see that no one have experienced that, so i am the bad luck guy that receive a gift (was a gift this Trojan Horse.... A Greek gift... the way we call here.... from a Brazilian that gave me a Greek gift)... so... the unit is defective, bad coiled or other thing that really do not interests me anymore.
Will close the subject and will stop to loose my time.... this conversation is making me angry, as i could see (not all Mooly, not you), that people thinks we are retarded.
The thread acomplished the task, the thread opener (me) is very satisfied..if you want to talk with yourselves..go ahead...i will buid amplifiers.
ahahahahaha!.... it is enougth to me..too much waste of precious time of my life having concerns about the transformer..it will go to the garbage can and finished the subject.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
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to create a nearly perfectly toroial transformer is very hard and obviously only very few manufacturers achieve this. Some commercial brands, even ultra high end audio brands observe various problems with their transformers under certainly conditions.
check out follow URLs In this case:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...buzzing-toroid-transformers-what-right-5.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass...ter-solution-large-toroidal-transformers.html
PLITRON - audio transformers - toroidal transformers - toroids - output transformers - current transformers - power transformers - medical isolation transformers - power toroids
also this article is very interesting:
"Measuring Acoustic Noise Emitted by Power Transformers" see PDF at post #8 about
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/163413-aleph-30-transformer-hum.html
The best brand in all respects that I know is follow:
Tauscher transformers - our products
check out follow URLs In this case:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...buzzing-toroid-transformers-what-right-5.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass...ter-solution-large-toroidal-transformers.html
PLITRON - audio transformers - toroidal transformers - toroids - output transformers - current transformers - power transformers - medical isolation transformers - power toroids
also this article is very interesting:
"Measuring Acoustic Noise Emitted by Power Transformers" see PDF at post #8 about
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/163413-aleph-30-transformer-hum.html
The best brand in all respects that I know is follow:
Tauscher transformers - our products
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