Steve, thank you for that detailed answer. i understand your standpoint now much better.
I have measured on cables a long time ago. I used music and swept sine waves.
The measurement setup was and amp and a speaker connected with wire. I put diferential probes on both ends. The result of the swept sinewave on both probes (the two transfer functions) was then treated mathematically as a devision to get the residuum.
With the probes i also did recordings of music at the amp and and at the speaker end.
In a similiar test like the Hafler test i got the residual. Cables with low omic impedance and low inductance did better on the transfer function test as expected but some of the low inductance cables had a strange dark noise overlayed on the residual music test. Differences where easily measurable but the consensus of a discussion that followed on a german web magazine was that my measured differences where too small to be audible. I then stoped that research because all other residual artifact like noise modulation where even lower in value so even less audible in the consensus of the majority.
I did that with 16bit precission and avaraging. Today i could do that with even higher resolution but distortion effets of passive parts seem to be under -140dB so the majority that claim common sense as their strong suite will again argue that this is inaudibe so i gave up to measure at that level.
I have measured on cables a long time ago. I used music and swept sine waves.
The measurement setup was and amp and a speaker connected with wire. I put diferential probes on both ends. The result of the swept sinewave on both probes (the two transfer functions) was then treated mathematically as a devision to get the residuum.
With the probes i also did recordings of music at the amp and and at the speaker end.
In a similiar test like the Hafler test i got the residual. Cables with low omic impedance and low inductance did better on the transfer function test as expected but some of the low inductance cables had a strange dark noise overlayed on the residual music test. Differences where easily measurable but the consensus of a discussion that followed on a german web magazine was that my measured differences where too small to be audible. I then stoped that research because all other residual artifact like noise modulation where even lower in value so even less audible in the consensus of the majority.
I did that with 16bit precission and avaraging. Today i could do that with even higher resolution but distortion effets of passive parts seem to be under -140dB so the majority that claim common sense as their strong suite will again argue that this is inaudibe so i gave up to measure at that level.
Kirkwood and I just had a long talk, about circuit design, and what went on at your gathering.
whose the guy that did design the NE5532 ?...
this one really changed the face of the audio
ic market...
yes, i know that it originated from signetics...NE was the signetics naming scheme...
anyway, a unique milestone in audio op amp history , as to this day, it s still used for
its inimitable sound caracteristics...
yet, the guy is as unknown as his creation is famed..
anyway, a unique milestone in audio op amp history , as to this day, it s still used for
its inimitable sound caracteristics...
yet, the guy is as unknown as his creation is famed..
(For lack of data.)
Well, there it is.
Sy's mention of religion was spot on. Every good religion makes you a martyr.
Let's face it, who's ego would not want them to be the guy who figured something out first? I mean, that'd be good but, imagine if everyone said you were wrong; the experts, the pundits, your peers.... hell even your measuring instruments said you were wrong... But you showed them all! Hah!
Who could let go of such a fantasy, once it had its grip on them? Perhaps, not me either.
(Takes off psychologists hat. Way too tight. Like it is trying to shrink my head.)
Hey, it works for the cable advertising guys...
I have very limited testing apparatus. Which device measures "dark" noise?
Thankfully, the effect was inaudible, though. Glad it worked out for you.
None of my business and you didn't ask...but what the hell. Having recently quit smoking tobacco (after 30yrs. of it) I can tell you healthier sinuses means noticeably better hearing. (No DBT testing here. It'd **** of my doctor and my girl.) Plus you don't sound as annoying to yourself, if you sing along. (I picked up a whole octave, that I had lost due to smoking.)
Like I said, I know you didn't ask... so feel free to ignore.
So SY should we limit it to you, the cable switcher and me to keep distractions down to a minimum? Or can a couple others be around as long as they don't bother us? If Roger Russell attends he cannot be the switcher so what do you think is best?
Thetubeguy1954
~Rational Subjectivism. It's An Acquired Taste!~
Seriously, it's up to you. I want you to have whatever milieu you think is best. We can always meet up with Roger afterward if you don't want it too crowded and he's available.
Stopping smoking is one of my projects this year. I know it´s bad for my health.
I did not smoke for 15 years and have piked it up 2 years ago.
I know that taste get´s much better but i did not know that stopping smoking will better my hearing by one octave. That motivates me even more.
I transfered the noise i measured into a wave file hat i could play back. I hope i can find it and post it here. It was an Analysys Plus loudspeaker cable that otherwise measured great on the transferfunction test.
I did not smoke for 15 years and have piked it up 2 years ago.
I know that taste get´s much better but i did not know that stopping smoking will better my hearing by one octave. That motivates me even more.
I transfered the noise i measured into a wave file hat i could play back. I hope i can find it and post it here. It was an Analysys Plus loudspeaker cable that otherwise measured great on the transferfunction test.
Here are at least some visual pictures. The first is the result of the transfer function test.
The best ( green) cable is the Analysys Plus.
The second picture is the residduum of the test with music transfered into the time domain. The cable with the bigger residduum is a 5m 0.75 qmm zip cabe and the one with the lower residduum is again the Analysy Plus ( 2 x 3m). I could listen to the result on a wave player. I hope i can find the original files. Its many years ago. When there is enough interest i could repeat that measurement with my current equipment but be warned : the "good" cables where under the established 0.3dB hearing threshold (D.Self "the limits of hearing") so i do not claim that every one will hear the difference or if the difference is big enough to be audibe in a double blind test.
I am having trouble uploading the files. I have compressed them but still it does not work. I will try again.
actually the 0.75qmm cabe cracks the 0.3dB boundary
The best ( green) cable is the Analysys Plus.
The second picture is the residduum of the test with music transfered into the time domain. The cable with the bigger residduum is a 5m 0.75 qmm zip cabe and the one with the lower residduum is again the Analysy Plus ( 2 x 3m). I could listen to the result on a wave player. I hope i can find the original files. Its many years ago. When there is enough interest i could repeat that measurement with my current equipment but be warned : the "good" cables where under the established 0.3dB hearing threshold (D.Self "the limits of hearing") so i do not claim that every one will hear the difference or if the difference is big enough to be audibe in a double blind test.
I am having trouble uploading the files. I have compressed them but still it does not work. I will try again.
actually the 0.75qmm cabe cracks the 0.3dB boundary
Heaven forbid I demotivate you, but I meant one octave in my voice, not my hearing.
As to my hearing, perhaps it is psychosomatic, but things sound less compressed, higher SPLs irritate less (ears don't tire as easy??)... seemingly less "background noise" in my ears. Hopefully I will never have opportunity to test my theories.
Good luck quitting.
Actually when i am in he states i smoke very little especially in california where nobody smokes tobako. Here in europe it is still a social phenomenon. Just look at the frensh films from the 60th and 70th. You rarely see an actor without a cigarette in it´s mouth. I am more woried about young girls, especially the ones with less edjucation that smoke like hell here. Well, this is totally off topic but i think good health is important to enyoy the finer elements of life like good reproduced sound.
I should see him in April. I'll PM you his website/contact info if you can't wait till then 😉.
Excellent. Practice makes perfect. Are you clear on the test setup and will he be switching under similar conditions?
As I have stressed Tom (as has SY), the only thing of importance for the test is you. Whatever makes you comfortable. My presence is not required. If you are comfortable with me being there before, during or after the test, I'll be there. If not, no big deal. As far as parking, again, I'm able bodied. Parking at the clubhouse/pool or outside the subdivision and walking in would not be an ordeal.
No problem Tom, I'll be fine with whatever you decide. Try to keep in mind this isn't a an Olympic event or climb to the top of Mount Olympus (to visit JC 🙂).
It's listening to music on a stereo. Your stereo.
cheers,
AJ
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