I'll bet we haven't. TG strikes me as extremely sincere. Please remember, he's been in and out of here because of health issues.
His question would have carried more weight if anyone could pass a Delusion Blocked Test.
So far, no one has.
Well, except Jakob and Risch. Just like I ran a 9.2 sec 100m, faster than Usain Bolt and SY continuously gorges on Hollywood babes.
Ya understand 😉
Hope you are right. Only flaw in your reasoning I can see is that his health issues did not prevent him talking about this topic on the asylum, unless his health issues means he (for now) can ONLY talk rather than do the test. In that case yeah, why bother talking in this thread (methinks he enjoys the mutual support he is likely to get over there than here)
As already noted, his plea that science 'drops everything and busily burrows in to solve what he and his cronies are certain they hear' would be more accepted if he, anyone, (or that one guy we have been searching for) passed a test.
There ya go SY, the title for your thesis when you announce to the world that someone COULD hear cables for reasons other than LCR.
"The One Guy". Pretty catchy eh?
Umm, I see you (as usual hahaha) dodged the question SY. No wonder you are viewed with scepticism.....what would it mean to you personally if TG passed? Exciting? Confusing? A spur to deeper investigation??
what.
AJ. You know what?? For some silly reason I think your last statement would mean more to TG than from others, and I think it would mean more simply because of your messy history together!! That you two have seemed to have turned some sort of corner has a bearing on that.
Weird eh? Of course I could be completely wrong too!! Anyway, I'm sure he'd appreciate a PM if indeed it is his health (for example) that has kicked in.
That's the difference between the rational/scientific and the faithful. It wouldn't be enough for me, that TG can hear a difference. I would need to know why. According to my logic, if "it" is audible in the sound field, "it" is in the sound waves. And sound waves are measurable (just like brain waves).
Of course, if he can't hear "it", then by my reasoning, there is no need to measure.
However, according to Jakobs "logic and reasoning", the onus would fall on me to prove that I can't measure "it"....that TG couldn't hear. 🙄
The simple fact that devices for measuring sound waves don't approach the sensitivity of those for voltage should be obvious to anyone who has a clue. Or is honest. Back to your regularly scheduled self-affirmation sessions.
You must be one of the fortunates with a perfect sound reproduction system that doesn't modify at any level the "it". Can't compete with that. Or did you get amplifiers and speakers with Redbook-limited non-linearities?
Whenever you're ready to present your evidence that your ears are more sensitive at capturing "voltage modification" in wires, than microphones.
We're waiting.
We're waiting.
Oddly enough TG feels the same way.
As far as he's concerned, he hears a difference and he wants to know why.
That's exactly what he's been asking about at the asylum lately.
Ya think so??
Hear is part of his post, note the wording of the question (or more specifically, what he assumes and therefore what he does NOT allow)
1) Why is it irrational to search for another scientific reason why the proponents of the audibility of wires are hearing differences "if" the measurements being used aren't detecting the differences some audiophiles hear?
Did you notice??
So, if what you said were true, he would do the test. If he passes, then he would be intellecytually able to ask the above question.
I note from your own wording that you have overlooked one possibility....the one I and many many others have been asking about for a while now.
Where is any credible evidence that these effects are true in the first place, if not then FIRST let's test the hypothesis.
IF you can hear differences other than what the measurements would tell us, then yeah THEN let's look for more data/different measurements.
If TG pulls out, you up to taking his place?? (ahh, not when you are from SA. sorry)
Right. Which is why a systematic approach of elimination is necessary. As proposed. The blind test. Where imagination (the elephant that patiently sits in the room waiting for the wild goose chases - like "voltage modification" - to subside) is eliminated. Once that happens, then we know whether and how to proceed. Not before.
I see no such thing. Imagination is not even being considered (nor will it ever be) amongst the "inmates". Their disorders prevent this.
Hi Terry and AJ
I was thinking of this thread here:
Propeller Head Plaza: If Wires Have Unique Sonic Characteristics Why Aren't They Revealed In LCR Measurements? by thetubeguy1954
Would I like to do a test? No thanks, I'm not a "believer". Maybe other folks can hear stuff I can't - who knows?
It would certainly be interesting if anybody could prove anything, but I'm not holding my breath.
Cheers - Godfrey
I was thinking of this thread here:
Propeller Head Plaza: If Wires Have Unique Sonic Characteristics Why Aren't They Revealed In LCR Measurements? by thetubeguy1954
Would I like to do a test? No thanks, I'm not a "believer". Maybe other folks can hear stuff I can't - who knows?
It would certainly be interesting if anybody could prove anything, but I'm not holding my breath.
Cheers - Godfrey
Nice dodge/straw man/question beg. Your style is intact. Say, since the limits of the source material appears to define the maximum required sensitivity of measurement, let's simplify and use cassette. Gee this productive.
Somebody asked, where is he/she - that Golden Eared Paradigm?
Collect one million people randomly and at one end of the gaussian curve you'll find folk who can't distinguish a violin from a tortured cat and at the other end you'll find those who can distinguish the most subtle audible differences you can invent.
This does not mean that they are immune to the effects of masking although they might test out differently than the average.
Of course they might only be .00001% of the sample, or less, or more. Nobody knows, of course.
Collect one million people randomly and at one end of the gaussian curve you'll find folk who can't distinguish a violin from a tortured cat and at the other end you'll find those who can distinguish the most subtle audible differences you can invent.
This does not mean that they are immune to the effects of masking although they might test out differently than the average.
Of course they might only be .00001% of the sample, or less, or more. Nobody knows, of course.
We know what you really mean,but lets hope he is not out for health reasons.Wish he's well and decide whatever he wants.
thanks godfrey.
You note that TG is trying to understand why cables may sound different. On a superficial level I can see that.
BUT, he is starting from an assumed and unquestionable (ie he will not allow the question) standing that there are audible differences.
However (and he notes this point in the thread) that is as 'blind and rigid' a position as he ascribes to us. *We* say 'first let's establish that you can, in fact heard these differences and so they are a property of the cable and not other factors (of any description)'.
He will not allow that, and describes that as a rigid and untenable position.
No more than his insistence on his own personal starting position.
I'm feeling generous right now, so I won't argue with that.
This para grabbed my attention tho..
I really just want to have a better understanding of the possible reasons wires might be influencing the sound of the systems they're installed in. I'm don't expect I'll be able to explain to others here what it all means anytime in the near future, if ever! My present POV is ALL wires from zipcord to the most expensive audiophile wire are affecting the sound of the systems they're in. What we as audiophiles/music lovers are looking for is the wire that has the least editorializing affect on the signals that pass through them.
Lets take for granted right now his starting position, that all cables do in fact cause an audible change.
We are still left with a philosophical conundrum are we not? How are we to determine what sound is in fact the least editorializing affect on the signals ????
Just how do you know that? (ie back to the question - where you present at the performance? or if it is electronic music forget it, it has no real world analog)
Or, do you have a direct 'mind-meld' to the intentions of the engineer?
Silly questions really. AND, as *most* of the believers seem to have an aversion to measurement, they are unable to even compare signal in vs signal out..
So in the end what he wants is what 'sounds best to him'. Obviously I have no problem at all with that!!
But don't make the mistake that it is a 'search for truth', a quest for audio purity, a desire for the cable that has the 'least editorializing affect on the signals'.
I don't see how it can be that way (ie, the 'subjective' path if you will)
At least I aim for 'accurate' (via measurements) then overlay it with 'salting to taste' (eq, measurement position etc etc)
All depends on which wagon you want to hitch up to I guess.
C'mon AJ..they're calling for you in that thread! Even curly I would imagine!! (tho Tg is prob saying 'spare me AJ please')
EDIT
hi panikos, good catch! It did sound like I was unsympathetic didn't it!
oops.
TG, I do hope this finds you in good health, sorry if it came out wrong!
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