Are you saying you could tell the difference beween burned in and not burned in if you had no prior knowledge of which component/cable/transformer etc was which but were merely asked to evaluate one and then another.
One big name on here has backed out of doing just that in the cable test despite telling everyone that the differences are so obvious 🙂
This weekend i'll attend my last AA meeting.
Coming monday i'll be singing at the mall entrance from 9-12, sermons will be held in the park between 1-6PM, Mo-Sa.
I know, i've been on the wagon for only a year, but i've learned so much and gained such deep understanding in that fruitfull period.
I already have a decent stand, just hope i finish all the oranges in time.
Coming monday i'll be singing at the mall entrance from 9-12, sermons will be held in the park between 1-6PM, Mo-Sa.
I know, i've been on the wagon for only a year, but i've learned so much and gained such deep understanding in that fruitfull period.
I already have a decent stand, just hope i finish all the oranges in time.
Mooly, do an out of focus picture get into focus if you look at it long enough?
I'm very familiar with the sound of that amplifiers, it is not my only one (the others are dual mono). I surely did not expect that the extra transformer would make it worse, it was quite a surprise. There were nothing wrong with the wiring, everything stayed the same except for adding a transformer.
Andre, this has gotten out of hand. The playing field of debate is not level, 'successful' advocates for listening differences are banned on a regular basis, without trial or notice. Intellectually challenged are encouraged to give the rest of us a lot of static. All in all, is it not a set-up to make anyone who finds things like break-in, warm-up, extraordinary component quality differences, to be misguided fools? I just can't continue to do this, comfortably.
January, 19, this week, I witnessed a thunderstorm in the sky above Pleasant Hill. People say, there were no such thunderstorms during last 30 years. Indeed, during 10 years I live here I did not see any thunderstorm. Should I believe that it was here, or should I believe that I was back in Joburg, because such thunderstorms do not happen here?
Korzybski described perceptions in the middle of the last century, stressing such mental processes as Deletion, Distortion, and Generalization. Due to this processes we can recognize known things in unknown things, particularly soundstage in artificial sounds reproduced by pair of speakers that can not physically reproduce a real soundstage. It does not exist. It exist in our imagination only that fools itself in order to recognize known in perceived.
How do you know that before installation of the second transformer soundstage was better? And, how can you be so sure that your imagination did not adjust itself to the new reproduction, so you started to recognize soundstage better than before it adjusted?
No it doesn't 🙂
I'm sure that you didn't expect it to be worse... perhaps the huge expectation and "maybe" imagining it would be somehow so different to how it was before, was all a bit of a let down, an anti climax ... when in reality it's probably pretty much the same and just as good as it was before.
This has happened to me, and I know to let my senses settle down and to listen for long periods or come back to it another day even.
John... you seem to want everyone to take the claims of burn in as "given"... as something that happens as a point of fact. You give the implication that, if only people would listen to the burned in cable they would see it's true.
Now I'm sceptical ! (but I would love to be proved wrong) and so if these differences are as marked as you say then you should have no trouble picking differences out, or saying "no sorry" they sound the same to me... and asking "has neither or both been burned in".
Could you do that ? you give the impression that under your own conditions you can.
Now you yourself quoted the case of the mains lead that was burned in vs the unburned in sample I believe.
So if you hear differences (not one better than another but just differences), then why is it so unreasonable, for want of a better expression, to put your claim to the test with you doing the testing in your system and surroundings and thus seeing if you can tell, and back up your claims and identify the samples.
If that's not reasonable please can you at least say why ?
No one is trying to discredit you... you have everything to gain if you can pick out a statistically significant sample.
Absolutely no!
And I'm not talking about cables or transformers, I didn't made any test with them.
On the contrary I've tested several elcos in my MyRef component selection and listened to caps changing their timbre and harshness until the first 50-100 hours of work.
Swapped the same caps with brand new ones back and forth and that difference was obvious to my ears.
I've heard such changes in every caps swap I've made in other gear (such my SACD Player or my A/V Receiver oe my speakers) but in those cases I've no control to compare to, since I didn't use sockets at that time.
So, as in my experience caps changes in the first hours of use, I affirm that IMHO electronic gear and speakers crossover do change 'sound' in the first hours of use (50-100 hours), not necessarily for the better, and then stabilize, someone call this 'change' burn-in.
Speakers definitely change their sound due to changes of mechanical properties (no magic at all).
No magic also with elcos...
Think about it, the cap formation done in production implies the creation of a thin oxyde layer and the electrolyte is usually an acid, which usually wear oxide...
The more the cap stays unused the more that oxyde wears.
When you start to use that cap the oxyde layer restart to form until it stabilize... 😉
Just an hypothesis but it's not sci-fi nor illogical.
Let's ask SY about elcos, he is a professional Chemist (revealing some truth) 😎
though, he tried to answer you already. 😉
though, he tried to answer you already. 😉
That is true unfortunately, one would expect more from a forum like this.
Funny to see how many 'designers' never noticed it but I guess if you design for specs alone it would not matter. 😉
Then why would stage focus be different?
You missed one thing, I normally build and use dual mono amplifiers, that one was an experiment.
Why do you carry on with this, John said he is not interested which I can understand clearly. I've said I will do the test, not that it matter to me what everybody else belief, it make no difference to the sound of my system.
OK... this is the easy one to answer.
Why is it really so unreasonable to ask that the person making these claims also backs up those claims in some way. Do you all just take everything on trust ? John has everything to gain by this as he is so sure in what he believes. And if he can't identify differences, then are we really any worse off than we are now ?
(I can understand your reasons why you don't want to participate John... you naturally feel if you can't identify any differences then you'll never hear the last of it... of course I understand that... but as someone who want's to push the boundaries... well you of all people should surely be able to turn this into a situation where we all increase our understanding of the listening process.)
And if that were the outcome then perhaps a further test along similar lines would be called for... just one test probably isn't totally reliable. Give the theory and the claims a fair test.
Perhaps doing all that would eventually open other avenues looking into why these "differences" that folk appear to observe occur.
And John may of course pick the different cables etc out immediately, returning a statistically significant sample.
If John is as open minded as I hope he is, then I would like to think we could all learn from something like this.
So to just keep saying the differences are clear is meaningless... lets see if they really are identifiable...
John... this isn't a personal "attack" against you... although I guess it probably feels like it sometimes.
Andre... it's great you have agreed to the cable test... is that still "a runner" and going to happen ?
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