No, I cant. I dont know much about blind tests. But central to my thought process here is that the blind test being discussed is different from others in that it includes a strong component of expectation on the part of the listener. There is personal investment involved and thus a sense of performance necessary.
What I do know is that in athletics it has been consistently observed that the hearing of an individual is affected by the stress levels.
If you wanted some interesting reading that includes this I would start with books written by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.
(AJ is going to have a field day since nearly everything this guy wrote includes the word "psychology" in the title. But if you actually read the stuff its easy to see the physioligical component outside of the psychology going on.)
Either way, as stated before, I'm not trying to prove anything. Just provide reasonable avenues of increased inquiry.
Chamo04, thats an interesting line of thought/study, what as crossed my mind is the effect on hearing being put under stress causes. In the fight or flight scenario you are tense but can hear certain things above other noise. May not the tension alter the range of frequencies we are more attuned to, thus altering the percieved sound of music we are listening to.
Well, if you look at it from this point of view. That the mere fact the muscle controlling the tension on the eardrum even exists then it begs the question of what scenarios exist to influence its response?
Fight or Flight is an obvious one. And certainly any stressor would influence this mechanism to some degree. What else could be influencing not only the dynamic range but accentuation of of specific frequency ranges?
How is someone able to clearly hear a singular voice amidst a sea of unfamiliar ones while focused on a completely different task?
This is why I love science so much. 😀
Fight or Flight is an obvious one. And certainly any stressor would influence this mechanism to some degree. What else could be influencing not only the dynamic range but accentuation of of specific frequency ranges?
How is someone able to clearly hear a singular voice amidst a sea of unfamiliar ones while focused on a completely different task?
This is why I love science so much. 😀
Wouldn't you expect hearing to be more acute under stress? "I hear a noise that could be something that will eat me. I'd better listen more closely."
agreed, wotever else this thread has achieved, I found some interesting points to go examine. 🙂
AJ, it is reassuring to see that you are still you. It just wouldn't be the same if you didn't call me ignorant and a liar. I did miss your usual "delusional" comment, though.
I don't have any pent up anything anymore: it just muddies the thinking process and I am not predisposed to do so. I was invited by another member to join this discussion. Lurking is what I do lots of places. I hadn't been here for a long time, so the invitation to watch you at your usual antics was just too good to pass up.
If you didn't have a track record (ooohhhh - a pun) of hyperbole and misinformation, I might be open to your claim of a 9.4/100, but you do and I'm not.
Concerning your last statement/question - it would be good for you to remember that actions have consequences and that we reap what we sow. I would think that would be quite apparent to you, by now - but hey: what do I know? Nevermind, I already know your answer.
As in the past, I will simply ignore your rants.....
Ta',
Dave
SY, only the important stuff seems to be noted under stress. The subtle color of the leaves, the smell of violets, etc. is lost. With hearing too, you only seem to hear a facsimile or simplification of sounds around you, the important stuff for survival.
The only bizarre thing seems to be your mind reading ability, rather spend some of that time training your ears, it is much more rewarding.
No, you said he did a DBT 20 years ago, then that should count as a positive result, shouldn't it?
Interesting response, did the shoe fit?
Don't stress AJ, I've told you most of my system is home-made so yours should be much better. 😉
I've never bragged about anything nor have I thrown insults to those who have tried and hear nothing. In fact, I've said several times, try for yourself and if you don't hear a difference (improvement), be happy and use the cheaper cable.
All I'm trying to do is encourage other to try and then decide for themselves, all you have to lose is a little bit of time.
Even in my normal sighted comparative testing I sometimes have to remind myself just to sit back, relax and experience the music, it is so easy to start concentrating on testing and miss the detail.
I have had worse experience than this myself.Half the track played and just could not even remember how and when,although I was there,and supposed to concentrate.That is worse than null result in a sighted "test" 😀
SY, John basically said it for me.
It seems that hearing becomes more acute by filtering out the stuff not essential for survival.
It should also be noted that its not neccesarily an on or off thing but linked to the degree of stress.
The exact same mechanism is seen throughout the human body and on all sorts of levels. There is a heirarchy whereby certain organs are protected at the expense of others in extreme situations.
A few years ago I tried to circumvent this phenonenon by playing tricks with a handful of audiophiles who's system I had access to. On a whim I would swap out a cable. Always one that was well hidden from sight and wait. It was only a handful of times before they were onto me and started checking their systems out before sitting to listen. But in the beginning each one of them sensed a difference and went searching for what might have changed. Each one of them called me to report that they found my little swap.
Again, nothing remotely rigourous enough to shine a light on publicly. But curious non-the-less.
It was the only way I could think of, at the time, to try to get a response without them knowing about it before hand.
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But again, as you very honestly said, it's purely speculation, no actual evidence, and it does not explain positive identifications to lots of other acoustic phenomena (level, frequency response, certain distortion, certain phase changes...). Nor the excellent accuracy and repeatability of the vast majority of controlled sensory experiments in organoleptics, haptics, optics, and yes, audio.
I'd be surprised if there weren't a few delicate flowers that wilt under any sort of testing, but to dismiss the most basic and fundamental tool in all of sensory research on the implication that 100% of people don't make good test subjects seems... strained.
As an aside........
If anyone has ever seen the Kevin Costner movie "For Love of the Game" you might recall the parts where Costner's character says," Engage the mechanism" and the camera depicts how his field of view narrows to just the pitching mound and batting plate.
This is the nearest representation of what actually happens in high level athletics. I've even had a couple athletes report that it seemed as though everything had gone black and white during their race. Crazy stuff!
If anyone has ever seen the Kevin Costner movie "For Love of the Game" you might recall the parts where Costner's character says," Engage the mechanism" and the camera depicts how his field of view narrows to just the pitching mound and batting plate.
This is the nearest representation of what actually happens in high level athletics. I've even had a couple athletes report that it seemed as though everything had gone black and white during their race. Crazy stuff!
I don't quite understand your point, my problem is your word 'define'. You can't mean that science isn't able to 'describe' human abilities, so you must be using define as in: "to determine the boundary or extent of". If so this does not mean that if science defines a limit to a human ability, the limit can't be revised. All it would take is some NEW evidence. We are waiting with calm endurance.
whoah, hang on, we have been told repeatedly recently that dbts CANNOT be passed by their very design!!
unless these were the usual sighted tests somehow.
can you guys sing from the same song sheet?
Regarding stress being the reason for not hearing these differences, and in response to the claim that *we* do not do tests (cause we are dogmatic and are completely uninterested in learning anything...btw who is repeatedly insulting who???) I have found stress/pressure of the test to be untrue.
Why? (oh, a friend has been here the last few days, and I was reminded of yet another test we have done blind previously, dunno why I did not remember😕😕) Because these guys ARE completely confident they can and hence will hear differences in the test. They are after all audiophiles, and they KNOW there are vast differences and they will hear them. Completely confident and relaxed, looking forward to it.
So the acute stress attack ONLY occurs the instant the switch is made...that sudden haunted hunted look instantly appears, the muscles tense, stomach cramps and the scrotum rides up hard with a bang.
Because it is only in THAT instant that there cherished beliefs are shattered, and they completely comprehend that their world has been suddenly turned upside down.
Now, admittedly TG may be under stress that these tests I have been involved in did not contain...as by now he IS surely aware of this controversy/points if discussion.
But these other audiophiles who went in without that prior knowledge, they were under no stress at all. They KNEW they would pass easily. So why would they have been worried??
that came after the first switch, not before.
And I think that you have not quite grasped the amount we can be unconsciously influenced, and the wide variety of things that can do so.
Your post shows that.
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