Erm! I have a problem taht maybe, just maybe those of you who belive in cable orientation can help me with!
Most outputs in Audio are based around some amplification that has +/- supply voltage, thus the signal goes positive then negative around the common rail (0V), this is called AC I belive. If cables were directional then you would get A distortion on the negative phase (provided you had the arrows pointing the right way) would you not.
Most outputs in Audio are based around some amplification that has +/- supply voltage, thus the signal goes positive then negative around the common rail (0V), this is called AC I belive. If cables were directional then you would get A distortion on the negative phase (provided you had the arrows pointing the right way) would you not.
Hi SY!
From our communications so far I believe you're open-minded like I am. As much as I realise you don't believe I'll pass the test, I don't believe that means you want me to fail the test. So far I'm convinced if I pass your test you'll believe some people can detect differences in wires. That said, I also believe the vast majority of the wire disbelievers here and elsewhere will remain unconvinced. Clear enough?
Thetubeguy1954
~Rational Subjectivism. It's An Acquired Taste!~
I do.
That's the way that makes more sense to me, apart from choosing which speaker driver sound good, the best I can do is supply it with the most accurate signal possible.
Since I can hear cable differences I guess the voice coil nasties of my drivers don't swamp the cable nasties.
A perfect example of invoking the superposition principle. It was already discussed that superposition theorems may not apply, so your reasoning is fundamentally flawed
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relevance?
Sorry, couldn't make it... BTW, what does connector tests have to do with voice coil wires, anyway? just curious.
This whole "discussion" revolves around this:
Sorry, couldn't make it... BTW, what does connector tests have to do with voice coil wires, anyway? just curious.
This whole "discussion" revolves around this:
Attachments
It is power flow. When the voltage is positive the current is positive. Thus the power is positive. When the voltage is negative the current is negative so the power again is positive.
Directional power flow is widely used in everything from cable TV systems to traffic control systems.
The incorrect assumption is that cables are an isolated linear system. At some level that assumption no longer holds true.
If you insert the cables the right way round, they will cancel some 2nd harmonics. Just joking, or maybe not.
I believe most instruments doesn't have a symmetrical wave around 0V?
J. Gordon Holt was a fine writer, a dedicated audiophile and the founder of Stereophile magazine. I thought his opinion on testing might be appropiate here.
Do you see any signs of future vitality in high-end audio?
Vitality? Don't make me laugh. Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel. For the record: I never, ever claimed that measurements don't matter. What I said (and very often, at that) was, they don't always tell the whole story. Not quite the same thing.
Excerpt from an interview with J. Gordon Holt, Stereophile magazine, Nov. 2007, "45 Years of Stereophile"
ZAP
Do you see any signs of future vitality in high-end audio?
Vitality? Don't make me laugh. Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel. For the record: I never, ever claimed that measurements don't matter. What I said (and very often, at that) was, they don't always tell the whole story. Not quite the same thing.
Excerpt from an interview with J. Gordon Holt, Stereophile magazine, Nov. 2007, "45 Years of Stereophile"
ZAP
As far as my diy cables are concerned all have +/- conductors facing in the oposite direction for the last 25 years.Good point.
Yep. As living survivors, some famous designers around may witness about.
Like, duh...
Wow!! Who would've thought!!! RU a rocket scientist, or a brain surgeon as well??
Any more insightful comments you'd care to share??
how's about some details on measured effects due to all those "surface conductivity micro-irregularities" or the "grain boundary micro-discrepancy" theories you bandy about so liberally...
Oh, that's right..."read the book, then we'll talk"... left as an exercise for the "student"......which all but you and apparently a select few are
Wow!! Who would've thought!!! RU a rocket scientist, or a brain surgeon as well??
Any more insightful comments you'd care to share??
how's about some details on measured effects due to all those "surface conductivity micro-irregularities" or the "grain boundary micro-discrepancy" theories you bandy about so liberally...
Oh, that's right..."read the book, then we'll talk"...
left as an exercise for the "student"......which all but you and apparently a select few areHi Tubeguy!
I think it's a good start. I think generally the people mixing and mastering the music are anti expensive cables because of the lack of proof. And if it actually matters on your end and can be proven it'll be easier to get tracking engineers to record the music with great cables theoretically improving the overall experience even possibly improving it for the person who still uses the mundane cable. And I think that is what I am more caught up with, the ENTIRE chain from recording to listener and what is the most realistic way of getting from point A to point B without there being a bunch of weird changes at the end. It's like an electronic game of telephone, somewhere down the line some jerk always has to throw in his own twist on the sentence and you end up with something different at the other end.
See I think it just makes the game of 1:1 reproduction a little more complex is all. If you can start to prove audible differences outside of LCR Phase then it becomes a game of mapping out what causes what effect and maybe coming up with reasons as to why these things are perceived differently.
But see for me my end goal is to have accessible sound reproduction as well as it being functional. So to me even if you can improve your sound with certain cables, if it means using prohibitively expensive cables then the question isn't "what is perfect" but "What is good enough and accessible for the job". Because if the tracking or mixing engineer is using prohibitively expensive ICs or Cables to monitor on and make judgments and these cables in fact do alter perceivable parameters well then you have inadvertently set an unneeded prerequisite for the audience to buy that expensive cable in order to hear the end product accurately. I am being a little sweeping because it all depends on the parameter the cables alter. If it is a parameter that could be altered at the mic, mixing board etc.. then it's probably best left to those areas and kept predictable by some standard on the cable IC end.
I liked fredex's response that got edited out.fredex said:
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So? My understanding is Holt, literally, was going deaf and became miserable and bitter in his later years. He turned his back on his life's work and that's an argument?
The CES and 'SHOW' showed me that hi fi is still with us, big-time! The only real departures are the Video home theatre groups that NOW serve the old time mid fi audio guys. So it's like this: The guy gets home from work, and before the 'game' he WATCHES his favorite DVD with his favorite musical group, rather than just listening to them on CD or record, or tape. It was always like this, just that Video and MP-3 is now added to the selection.
Real audiophiles still exist, except that they may now be more international in scope AND with more money to invest.
Real audiophiles still exist, except that they may now be more international in scope AND with more money to invest.
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