I bet you haven't even heard the best of them. Give them a try first 😉
I stand by the OPA1611, which is wonderful (and I'm even more confirmed now I've heard how much the sound of the DAC has changed with the last cable change, making it even more transparent and effortless - though maybe less seductive than with the King Cobra).
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And yes...I'm all for the BB (or National, too) sonic signature. 
Luckily, just the half of the main opamp factories that keeps sending me samples 😀
The other two being harsh in behaviour as they are hard in sound 😛🙂
Luckily, just the half of the main opamp factories that keeps sending me samples 😀
The other two being harsh in behaviour as they are hard in sound 😛🙂
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My least favorite opamps so far have been those from Analog Devices, if I exclude the AD845KN which is a good sounding chip indeed (better than the AD797ANZ in unity gain).
The Linear Technology opamps have the merit of being transparent, without a too obvious personality. But in the end, I like subtlety and prefer the Burr Brown less straightforward and more suitable for my music sound.
The Linear Technology opamps have the merit of being transparent, without a too obvious personality. But in the end, I like subtlety and prefer the Burr Brown less straightforward and more suitable for my music sound.
Andrea.... are you listening to all these via H/phones or through your main amp and speakers ?
Main amp & speakers. Headphones are only for late night listening, these days, although I certainly don't exclude bringing my nearly new HD650 back into service, sooner or later 🙂
Strange, all you people never talk about your opamps' supply voltages... They don't sound the same at 8 or 15 volts.
So supposing then, you changed your amp, and repeated all these comparisons.
Do you think you that you might draw different conclusions as to which is opamps are "best" in your source/dac ?
What I am getting at, is you looking at, (or hearing) your system as a whole. Perhaps leaving the DAC as original and trying different opamps in your main amp may give a similar sound to the one you "hear" at the moment.
Perhaps (if the DAC already had OPA1611's from new), then fitting the OPA1611 or 1612 in your amp may be too much... to bright or revealing. If it was just the amp you were modding and testing all these opamps in you might then say the OPA1611/2 was not the "best".
I just don't think you can draw up a list of opamps like this, listening to them in a single application... and as I keep saying... that signal has probably been through loads of "lesser" devices before it gets to you.
I think you have to take the whole system and tweak and apply devices sympathetically to really get the very best possible results 🙂
If supply voltages don't touch the min. and max. allowed for a certain opamp, then the change in sound is most of the time negligible (especially relative to the sonic difference between this and that chip). At least with the last generations of opamps..
But yeah, I do agree that the supply voltages had better be mentioned. Mine go from 12V to 24V 🙂
If I knew my amp & speakers weren't balanced and honest sounding, I'd say yes! But I know they are, and I say no. That could indeed change the order of my favorites slightly, though. Actually even a (digital or analog) interconnect change can very well do that 🙂
So, say, since between LT1028ACN8 and OPA1611 it's a close enough call, my preference may vary... although it was with a sense of relief that I discovered the OPA1611 recently, just after I'd lived with the LT1028 for a couple of weeks 🙂
Sure! But I prefer to change the sound at the very source, to changing it at midway. Also, I have a certain respect for my integrated amp as it is 🙂
I thought I'd been saying all the time that opamps must be matched to balance the sonic characterizations of each... and my numerical "thing" is very much the objective 😉😎 proof of it.
That said, the OPA1611 is neither too forward nor too analytical (or it wouldn't be my favorite overall).
A few single applications over a respectable time span, in fact. 😉
Sympathetically means what I said above, to me. Don't know what it means for you. I don't believe in "absolutes" when it comes to audio electronics... Which I think you could've easily deduced from my former reasonings (well...reports of personal experience) on high & low end audio. 🙂
If I did believe in absolute quality rankings, maybe (worst of things) based on pricing... well I'd have ditched that UPC 4570 opamp that's in my amplifier in no time. Instead, I enjoy it all the time 🙂
In summary, you may see it like: I want a DAC to be analytical but not unmusical (or I'd have been happy with the LM4562NA 😉), while I like an amp (strictly solid state) to be musical in the first place. That's just my way...
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Thank you.. 🙂 I just wondered 😉
Dare I say (tin hats on... lol) you really should explore beyond that Pioneer amp...
Dare I say (tin hats on... lol) you really should explore beyond that Pioneer amp...
I explored a lot in my former life. 😛 Sorry, I meant age. 😛
Today... I have little money, and I think I'd better plan a speaker change rather than an amplifier change, for first. Just because we're audiophiles and upgrading stuff is our DNA 🙂
Anyhow... my candidates for a possible amplifier upgrade, given my present budget size, are: Yulong AMP ONE & Denon PMA-510. I don't want to completely DIY anymore...too much hassle compared to the advantage foreseen 😉
Regarding the Pioneer amp... well, as a typical DIY hardcore (who hasn't heard it), I'm pretty sure you're looking down on it too much... quite like I'd have done myself when I used to own very much more pretentious - yet equally imperfect - stuff. 😉
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BTW, I'd want to hear that DIY amp you suggested, before making the assumption that it's much better than the Pioneer or other cheap but quality amp.
Not at all Andrea... however I know that different amp topologies sound very different... and in the same way you are finding with opamps, so I have found with amplifiers.
Quite a few years ago now I bought a new Pioneer... an A80
Google Image Result for http://www.hifiengine.com/images/model/pioneer_a-80.jpg
after listening to it and also on the strength of technical specs.
In many ways it's perfect, super clean sounding... everything good "Hifi" is meant to be, but ultimately I have found through continuing to build amps and listen to them, that when it comes to "musicality" which is a totally subjective thing, that all these commercial and DIY "Blameless" circuits all had a definite "family" type of sound.
So I am not "looking down" on your amp at all... just that I feel it's a limiting factor musically... you just haven't heard the totally "different" musical experience that some "a very select few" designs can give.
🙂
the rules of blind rolling is that they are no rules..just like Bruce Lee saying "the best technique is to have no technique".
keep a handful of favorite chips, and find the combination you like the most in your current design 🙂
but I'd like to thank Andrea for pushing me towards all those LT chips, they are really sounding amazing..it baffles me that ppl would prefer NE/LME/OPA parts over these. but well the LT1364 is very widely used in audiophile amps, for a good reason!
keep a handful of favorite chips, and find the combination you like the most in your current design 🙂
but I'd like to thank Andrea for pushing me towards all those LT chips, they are really sounding amazing..it baffles me that ppl would prefer NE/LME/OPA parts over these. but well the LT1364 is very widely used in audiophile amps, for a good reason!
Wow, that Pioneer looks OLD. 🙂
Anyhow... Primare and Atoll know how to make high quality amps. "Totally different musical experience" eh? Impossible. I know what I'm talking about. I even compared Atoll integrated's to much more expensive, high-end amplifiers in shops. They were just a little more 'wide' and refined, with the Atoll IN80 (and also the IN50) setting a very good sonic standard at reasonable cost.
Regarding the Primare I20, well that was yet more refined but also a little more relaxed at dynamics. Slightly more sophisticated, but at a higher cost. I used it with Harbeth HL-P3/ES monitors. 🙂
If I had the money, I would spend the 390 euro required to get the Atoll IN30. 😉 Maybe it's just what I should do... buy the new speakers, and then save up (and enjoy the great, musical and natural Pioneer A-209R in the meantime).
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Yeah, the LT1028ACN8 is wonderful, undoubtedly. It's not by chance that a new high-end DAC designed and made in the UK makes use of them. 🙂
That being said, I like the OPA1611 even that slight but important bit more. But I still prefer the LT1028ACN8 to the various OPA827, OPA211, AD797ANZ, OPA627BP, LM4562NA, and about anything else widely popular in forums 🙂
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well, many DAC datasheets like the PCM1792A or the CS4398 advise to use LT1028/1128 as LPF...you'd think that BB would have a handful of chips to advise, but they actually advise LT op-amps...figures 😀
OPA211 is very similar to OPA1611 IMHO...and LM4562 makes me wanna jump off the window tbh, it literally gives me suicidal tendencies 😛
and for very cheap, LT1364 gets the job done!
OPA211 is very similar to OPA1611 IMHO...and LM4562 makes me wanna jump off the window tbh, it literally gives me suicidal tendencies 😛
and for very cheap, LT1364 gets the job done!
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