Hi everyone,
I am about to buy 4 Peerless 12'' XLS 830500 for my main speakers, wich have (sub)woofer + midbass and tweeter (separate enclosures). It is intended to play music and HT too, down to the last octave.
Each (sub)woofer enclosure will have 2 XLS and 70l (sealed), with some EQ to go down flat to 20Hz or so, and a low-pass at around 90 ~ 100Hz.
Will this be enough to go down to 20Hz? Keeping the 2 enclosures, is there a better way to do it (another driver, etc.)?
Thanks!
I am about to buy 4 Peerless 12'' XLS 830500 for my main speakers, wich have (sub)woofer + midbass and tweeter (separate enclosures). It is intended to play music and HT too, down to the last octave.
Each (sub)woofer enclosure will have 2 XLS and 70l (sealed), with some EQ to go down flat to 20Hz or so, and a low-pass at around 90 ~ 100Hz.
Will this be enough to go down to 20Hz? Keeping the 2 enclosures, is there a better way to do it (another driver, etc.)?
Thanks!
I have that Peerless driver, it is really designed to be used with a matching passive radiator - the Peerless 830548 - with the combination of one 830500 plus one 830548 in a 35l enclosure you can easily achieve sub 20Hz performance - you will need to add about 6db of boost around 24Hz and then a HP filter around 18Hz to limit LF over excursion
Hello,
have a look at this project:
THOR - subwoofer
it uses the same Peerless driver you are going to purchase.
Regards
have a look at this project:
THOR - subwoofer
it uses the same Peerless driver you are going to purchase.
Regards
Hi! Thanks for the suggestions! I know very little about passive radiators, but I think a closed box has better performance regarding transient response, group delay, etc. Is that so???
So, for each enclosure I may consider:
- 1x 830500 + 830548 PR (I will think about it);
- 2x 830500 closed box 70l (it will need about 12dB boost);
- Any other combination??? (keeping the 70l internal volume);
Overall, I'd like to have a very well controlled, tight bass...🙂
Thanks and Regards!
So, for each enclosure I may consider:
- 1x 830500 + 830548 PR (I will think about it);
- 2x 830500 closed box 70l (it will need about 12dB boost);
- Any other combination??? (keeping the 70l internal volume);
Overall, I'd like to have a very well controlled, tight bass...🙂
Thanks and Regards!
How's the acoustics in your listening space? At what point does cabin gain take over for your room? You might not need "flat" to 20 from your subs to actually get there.
The 830500 plus one 830548 does provide that and allows lower frequency extension without port issues than you could get by just using 830500 alone - by maintaining a relatively small enclosure (35l) this also contributes to keeping the sound quality very tight but at the same time very satisfying musically.
However, if you are looking for more of a startling "thump and bump" HT sub there may be better choices than the 830500
BTW - here is a link to copy of the original 830500 application notes from Peerless that compares sealed, ported and passive radiator configurations for that driver
Hi davygrvy, I think I don't really need to go flat to 20Hz, but low-frequencies are a bit problematic... and I have a big "bump" around 50Hz.
Hi Cokewithlime, I think I'll do some simulations regarding closed box using 2x 830500, and PR using an 830500 plus one 830548. The THOR subwoofer, suggested by S.A.G. appears to be interesting (at least to me). It happens that I'm a fan of closed boxes...
Is it too bad to have a boost around 10..12 dB at 20Hz???
Is it too bad to have a boost around 10..12 dB at 20Hz???
In a word - yes. In order to add that much boost @ 20Hz you will require an amplifier that can provide at least 1200 Watts of power - if you did provide that much power, even two 830500's in parallel could only handle about 500W for a short period of time - you would just end up burning out the drivers.
In addition, even with all that boost, you will not have affected the F3 point and the output level at 20Hz would still be down at F10.
The t/s parameters of the 830500 really indicated that for extended LF operation that it should be used in a ported / passive configuration
What has a big bump? Your room has a natural resonance or your current speakers are one-note'rs?
A big bump means a big resonance of my room! I tried to measure it using pink noise and measurement mic + SW (ARTA), and I got a >10dB peak at around 50Hz, wich is pretty much audible...
Cokewithlime, do you know if it is possible to use an internal volume bigger than 35l?
It happens that I would like to use (if possible) two boxes that already have (around 70l)...
It happens that I would like to use (if possible) two boxes that already have (around 70l)...
With a 35l enclosure this will result in a overall tuning of 18hz you will get a decent 105db from 25Hz upwards with a F3 of about 20Hz - you will require a HPF @ 14Hz to prevent over excursion of the driver & passive.
If you put the same driver/passive into a 70l enclosure this will result in a overall tuning of 14hz which results in a combination that is too low tuned - ie because of this extra low tuning you will have to change the HPF from a simple 2nd order @ 14Hz to a 4th order HPF @ 22Hz to prevent driver/passive over excursion - this also unfortunately results in causing lower ouput level, a higher order F3 and substantially less even FR than the previous configuration.
In summary - yes you could use the 70l enclosures but with poorer results than the same driver/passive combination in a 35l enclosure.
My suggestion would be to just modify your existing 70l enclosures by filling them with bricks or internally sub dividing them so that you achieve a final internal 35l volume.
If you put the same driver/passive into a 70l enclosure this will result in a overall tuning of 14hz which results in a combination that is too low tuned - ie because of this extra low tuning you will have to change the HPF from a simple 2nd order @ 14Hz to a 4th order HPF @ 22Hz to prevent driver/passive over excursion - this also unfortunately results in causing lower ouput level, a higher order F3 and substantially less even FR than the previous configuration.
In summary - yes you could use the 70l enclosures but with poorer results than the same driver/passive combination in a 35l enclosure.
My suggestion would be to just modify your existing 70l enclosures by filling them with bricks or internally sub dividing them so that you achieve a final internal 35l volume.
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Yeah, very much audible! I agree. 50Hz has a half-wave of 11.5 feet (3.4 meters). You probably have a parallel wall room mode. If this was me, I'd put some effort into fixing the room first with some treatment before getting/making good subs.
Are the side walls the ones doing it? For me, I test bass modes with sine waves. Put up 50 Hz and walk around trying to locate the nulls and peaks. Maybe write down some measures you get with an SPL meter on your floorplan.
A wall-mounted slat trap (A type of Helmholtz resonator) wouldn't work as the size (volume) would be too large. Trapping is only needed on one side, the rear, if the wall length of that problem dimension is front-to-rear. If the wall problem is side-to-side, I'd recommend trapping on both sides to keep things equal.
If you do go with a slat type, be aware of the gross equation errors in the common info you might find.
There are other methods. Think of a ported speaker cabinet without a speaker in it. Just a box with a port filled with some acoustic dampening material tuned to the frequency you want to remove.
Maybe 3' long sonotubes that are closed with one end having a port on it. They would also work as side wall diffusers, too, when hung on the wall.
Thanks! My side walls are 4.2m (13.7 feet) apart, so it should be 40.5Hz, and not 50Hz!
I'll try some more measurements, including an SPL map! Great idea!
I'll try some more measurements, including an SPL map! Great idea!
Hi Cokewithlime, now I have another problem, besides the 70l enclosure (the bricks were a good idea, besides reducing the volume, they would also make the enclosure somewhat quieter)! My driver supplier just informed me that the 830548's are no longer available. Tymphany only sells a minimum qty of 500 for the OEM market... No I will have to search for another supplier. I believe it is also discontinued from Parts Express...
What now?
What now?
Yes, I noticed that as well
Meniscus Audio is not showing it as NLA (they may have some remaining stock) or not, it might be worth an email to them to check. You could also check for any remaining stock in the UK, and Europe.
Creative Sound Solutions from Canada make a very good line of passives, their APR-12 can easily be substituted for the 830548 as long as you don't mind the visual difference between the 830500 and the APR-12
Lastly you could perhaps go to a ported configuration check out this recent thread on a ported implementation of a 830500
Hi, thanks a lot! I'll try to get the 830548's elsewere...
Anyway, I have an old 60 liter (2.1 cu feet) enclosure, and I think I'll try a vented configuration to check the result, before I move to the 70l enclosures. I'll do a few more simulations with UniBox and see what I can get. As soon as I have the time (and/or the drivers) I'll post some results here.
Thaks all for your help!
Anyway, I have an old 60 liter (2.1 cu feet) enclosure, and I think I'll try a vented configuration to check the result, before I move to the 70l enclosures. I'll do a few more simulations with UniBox and see what I can get. As soon as I have the time (and/or the drivers) I'll post some results here.
Thaks all for your help!
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