See my comments about the demographics of high end audio events, for example in the ETF thread.
You guys are whistling past the graveyard.
The Japanese are coming 😀.........they're already hre at not much higher prices than Chinese ....... tube amps for example 🙄
So DIY audio is doomed too?
If a Japanese EL34 PP integrated,superbly made and finished,sold at $2000 is dropping and dying,then DIY is pure masochism.The hobby fun excluded 😀
As we know it, yes, I'm afraid. Look at the ETF pictures. Note the absence of a significant younger generation- they're involved in computers, not hifi. It's just us old farts, with very few exceptions. Forty years ago, when I started building audio equipment seriously, the ratios were a lot different- lots and lots of youngsters, with a smattering of eminences grises.
And look at the total death of local parts supply shops (not one here in Austin!), the death of diy magazines (with AudioXpress barely hanging on, but probably for not much longer), coupled with the HUGE popularity of totally synthesized music- programming, not reproduction or construction.
Nope, I'm afraid we're the dinosaurs.
And look at the total death of local parts supply shops (not one here in Austin!), the death of diy magazines (with AudioXpress barely hanging on, but probably for not much longer), coupled with the HUGE popularity of totally synthesized music- programming, not reproduction or construction.
Nope, I'm afraid we're the dinosaurs.
So DIY audio is doomed too?
Seems to me DIY is doing great! Why shell out $10,000 for some audio gear when you can build one yourself? And it's fun.
As we know it, yes, I'm afraid. Look at the ETF pictures. Note the absence of a significant younger generation- they're involved in computers, not hifi.
There seem to be a lot of young people building speakers here:
HTGuide.com
If a Japanese EL34 PP integrated,superbly made and finished,sold at $2000 is dropping and dying,then DIY is pure masochism.The hobby fun excluded 😀
When I first started in audio there were a great many small manufacturers (PS Audio, Theta (Mike Moffit's tubed models, his entry in to high end audio), Quicksilver, Precision Fidelity, Croft, Audible Illusions and many others) that were not built like tanks, but actually rather crudely by todays standards in terms of packaging. They were cost effective and offered excellent performance vs the mass market stuff. I hope that there is a return to this type of products from the great designers. Maybe the Japanese will spark the next generation of "garage built" lower cost great sound revolution. I do think that the tubed units will be the ones that lead this new revolution too. I think that is what you are seeing in the DIY forums here too. Has the traffic increased here over the past say 5 years or so?
Has the traffic increased here over the past say 5 years or so?
Yes. More and more of us seniors are getting on-line.
There seem to be a lot of young people building speakers here:
HTGuide.com
Thank you. You answered my question exactly. Audio is not dying, just changing the way it is done. Cost constraints have hit everyone. When we have so many great designers, sharing their work with the masses, why shouldn't anyone that truly loves great sound, build their own. I frequent HTGuide. Jon Marsh's latest three way design is a great example of what can be achieved for about 1/4 of the cost or more of a similar design, if you can handle the woodworking aspects of course.
There seem to be a lot of young people building speakers here:
HTGuide.com
One segment that seems to be quite alive and well among the young set is car audio, that's true. Home audio, eh, not so much.
One segment that seems to be quite alive and well among the young set is car audio, that's true. Home audio, eh, not so much.
Sy,
Once they have more disposable income, do you think that these younger people will completely forget audio and not want a system at home? I started out with a great car stereo when I was young too. I spent all of my free time in my car chasing girls, partying with friends, etc. It was my home 😀
When I first started in audio there were a great many small manufacturers (PS Audio, Theta (Mike Moffit's tubed models, his entry in to high end audio), Quicksilver, Precision Fidelity, Croft, Audible Illusions and many others) that were not built like tanks, but actually rather crudely by todays standards in terms of packaging. They were cost effective and offered excellent performance vs the mass market stuff. I hope that there is a return to this type of products from the great designers. Maybe the Japanese will spark the next generation of "garage built" lower cost great sound revolution. I do think that the tubed units will be the ones that lead this new revolution too. I think that is what you are seeing in the DIY forums here too. Has the traffic increased here over the past say 5 years or so?
Yes,I will never forget the first time I've heard an audible illusions preamp🙂
All these great diy'ers here ,could set up a small manufacturing plan I think.What we see today coming from Japan,is the outcome of such efforts I think.They offer some great products at most reasonable(in fact lower than diy)prices.And despite what some here say about looks and finish,only thing I can say is,just have a look at that finish🙂
Yes,I will never forget the first time I've heard an audible illusions preamp🙂
All these great diy'ers here ,could set up a small manufacturing plan I think.What we see today coming from Japan,is the outcome of such efforts I think.They offer some great products at most reasonable(in fact lower than diy)prices.And despite what some here say about looks and finish,only thing I can say is,just have a look at that finish🙂
Powder coating can dress up a bent metal chassis to a pretty fair degree 🙂 Nice knobs don't cost that much either 🙂
Andre,
Let's try some logic for a change:
If I assume that:
1 - You indeed fully understand the theory about the cables mentioned before;
2 - You also fully understand the psycho-acoustic issues that abundantly proof that our hear-brain system is probably the least reliable sensory instrument around;
3 - When doing your listening test with cables, you hear/perceive differences;
4 - As a result, you conclude there is a conflict between the above points.
My question would be:
1 - Are you interested at all to solve the conflict?
2 - If so, where would you start to look for resolution of the conflict?
jd
1 - Yes, I would like to know why there is a conflict, that's the reason why I'm still writing here. Now and then somebody come with some interesting information, just maybe some day the puzzle will fall into place.
2 - As you say, we have the THEORY of cables on one side and psycho-acoustic issues on the other. I guess the only way would be to try and minimise the psycho-acoustic issues in testing to find the source of the conflict. If it is still there, we obviously have to look again at THEORY of cables as well as our understanding of sound perception to try and find why they are in conflict. I do believe our hearing are, or can be, more sensitive to certain aspects than given credit for.
Sy,
Once they have more disposable income, do you think that these younger people will completely forget audio and not want a system at home?
Not so much a matter of "forgetting" as "not being terribly interested in music in the home in the first place." Geez, back when I was a kid, we were all broke but we still had Dynacos, ARs, and Shures, dreaming of A7s, Macintosh, and Deccas to play Pink Floyd once we would have disposable income. We built and modified gear relentlessly. Where are those kids? If there had been the events we have now, or forums like this, we'd have been all over them. Instead, it's just a bunch of gray, balding, paunchy guys.
Powder coating can dress up a bent metal chassis to a pretty fair degree 🙂 Nice knobs don't cost that much either 🙂
Of course🙂
1 - Yes, I would like to know why there is a conflict, that's the reason why I'm still writing here. Now and then somebody come with some interesting information, just maybe some day the puzzle will fall into place.
2 - As you say, we have the THEORY of cables on one side and psycho-acoustic issues on the other. I guess the only way would be to try and minimise the psycho-acoustic issues in testing to find the source of the conflict. If it is still there, we obviously have to look again at THEORY of cables as well as our understanding of sound perception to try and find why they are in conflict. I do believe our hearing are, or can be, more sensitive to certain aspects than given credit for.
OK, fair enough. Just don't forget that the THEORY of cables is a PROVEN theory with no holes in it whatsoever. 😉
jd
One segment that seems to be quite alive and well among the young set is car audio, that's true. Home audio, eh, not so much.
Lots of electronic kit companies can't even keep up with traffic, and keep running out of stock. I don't see what you're talking about, online at least. I see lots of home theater builds by young people.
OK, fair enough. Just don't forget that the THEORY of cables is a PROVEN theory with no holes in it whatsoever. 😉
jd
Perhaps but everything that exist are full of holes. 😀
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