ok, I am aware of current related noise and distortion in resistors, but what about the impact in speaker cables?
Regards
Regards
Tony,
No man... you have me all wrong! I study real hard to learn as much as I can, spend 60+ hours a week working 2 jobs, have lived in an old house with no plaster on the ceilings of 2 rooms that I can't find the time to finish remodeling and that has a leaking roof I can't afford to have repaired, have lived on unemployment for the better part of the last year, have no savings or retirement at 51 years of age, have had no health insurance for the last 4 years until my wife got a job that provided it last December, drive an old junker... and you name it... just to build speakers and audio gear for the welfare of others!!!Would it be OK with you if I can at least eat regularly and keep from loosing my piece of crap home?
Thanks for understanding!🙂
-Bob
PS. If you don't believe the above, just ask the guys on AudioCircle that know me... they'll tell ya.
what can i say? i work 88 hours a week myself, guess we all have to make a living eh?:😀
Hi,
Cables, be that IC or SP cables are no different from any other so callled passive component per se.
If it'll be audible is anyone's guess....
My personal theorem to this is that there's currently a litlle more audible left to be measured...
Cheers, 🙂
Cables, be that IC or SP cables are no different from any other so callled passive component per se.
If it'll be audible is anyone's guess....
My personal theorem to this is that there's currently a litlle more audible left to be measured...
Cheers, 🙂
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I do not care very much about audibility. Some people have better, some have worse hearing than me and there is the matter of individual taste too...
I'm just curious about measured numbers. 😀
Regards
I'm just curious about measured numbers. 😀
Regards
Went back to the books and found this: " flicker (1/f) noise only exists in association with a direct current. Thus, in the case of a resistor, no flicker noise is present until a direct current is passed through the resistor. Consequently, carbon resistors can be used if required as external elements in low noise, low freq. ICs as long as they carry no direct current."
Dosnt that make it non existant in interconects?
Dosnt that make it non existant in interconects?
A nicely done letter indeed.
Usually, that sort of price range is appropriate for large venue, difficult venue, and hard-to-please customer.
Possibly, you should have charged a bit more.
I think that a speaker adjustment such as a "padding resistor" on a midrange driver is a much better alternative to euphonic/ringing.
Whatever the case may be, small venues need some help in order to avoid the "cannonfire at point blank range" sort of blaring.
Its great when you can shut off effects and actually hear the soundfield get bigger/clearer when the effects are off.
This is one of my weird testing requirements for equipment. Of course I do this test with "live concert" recordings that are supposed to have a large soundfield so that I'm testing for something that is supposed to happen.
This test is additionally performed in monophonic for the amp. Only two have failed this test (of course they were recycled).
90% of the time? I think that's pretty far off; however, I really Do like your approach of working out issues via the loudspeaker. Your approach doesn't put gain on error.
Personally, I'm not up for building a loudspeaker especially to fit each room it is in. But, if you're up for it, then KUDOS!!! 😀 😀 😀
OH my. Well, I'm hanging out in the mid-fi market, with small venues and low prices. I do all sorts of technology, and audio is just a part of it. Its not unusual to fix the tv, the vacuum cleaner, the computer, the phone, and the stereo all in one trip. For me, the problem is having spent 6 months or longer on an amplifier design and then the customer will connect it to economarket speakers. Cruel! Simple cure = design around the problem (pending). I'd much rather do active speakers (pending).
This sort of issue is quite similar to providing an incredibly fast professional grade computer for $240 or less (same as the one on my desk because better is unlikely) and then they connect it with dial-up internet, which, of course, runs awful. Simple cure = small form factor with shorty card slots so that the Wal-Mart modem won't fit. lol!
And, you're worried about cables? Egads. I'm lucky if they avoid the solid 24ga.
P.S. I did just fix the roof. Its metal now and it doesn't leak. No more knocking out bits of the roof with brute force that can't do what specific low power can do (fitting large bass waves into small venues). Hey, price-quote the "pick your color" metal and see if that won't do it for your roof. Its not hard to diy install that with 2 people. Caveat: your cell phone won't get as much signal.
Usually, that sort of price range is appropriate for large venue, difficult venue, and hard-to-please customer.
Possibly, you should have charged a bit more.
I think that a speaker adjustment such as a "padding resistor" on a midrange driver is a much better alternative to euphonic/ringing.
Whatever the case may be, small venues need some help in order to avoid the "cannonfire at point blank range" sort of blaring.
Its great when you can shut off effects and actually hear the soundfield get bigger/clearer when the effects are off.
This is one of my weird testing requirements for equipment. Of course I do this test with "live concert" recordings that are supposed to have a large soundfield so that I'm testing for something that is supposed to happen.
This test is additionally performed in monophonic for the amp. Only two have failed this test (of course they were recycled).
90% of the time? I think that's pretty far off; however, I really Do like your approach of working out issues via the loudspeaker. Your approach doesn't put gain on error.
Personally, I'm not up for building a loudspeaker especially to fit each room it is in. But, if you're up for it, then KUDOS!!! 😀 😀 😀
OH my. Well, I'm hanging out in the mid-fi market, with small venues and low prices. I do all sorts of technology, and audio is just a part of it. Its not unusual to fix the tv, the vacuum cleaner, the computer, the phone, and the stereo all in one trip. For me, the problem is having spent 6 months or longer on an amplifier design and then the customer will connect it to economarket speakers. Cruel! Simple cure = design around the problem (pending). I'd much rather do active speakers (pending).
This sort of issue is quite similar to providing an incredibly fast professional grade computer for $240 or less (same as the one on my desk because better is unlikely) and then they connect it with dial-up internet, which, of course, runs awful. Simple cure = small form factor with shorty card slots so that the Wal-Mart modem won't fit. lol!
And, you're worried about cables? Egads. I'm lucky if they avoid the solid 24ga.
P.S. I did just fix the roof. Its metal now and it doesn't leak. No more knocking out bits of the roof with brute force that can't do what specific low power can do (fitting large bass waves into small venues). Hey, price-quote the "pick your color" metal and see if that won't do it for your roof. Its not hard to diy install that with 2 people. Caveat: your cell phone won't get as much signal.
This cable-thing is still Greek to most audiophiles. First, before you satart thinkin of solving the problem you need to realise what the problem is😉
Usually there is no problem.Audiophiles's systems sound as good as any other's.It is the quest for improvements that makes this hobby a fun and is not an issue to face any one in an ironic,hostile,even racist sometimes way.As for Greek,don't be so sure,I'm Greek and I miss most of it.I'm here to learn a few things and share some experiences.On the other hand,this cable-thing as you call it,may just as well prove Greek to some others............
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Juergen Knoop,
Dear Sir,
I believe you folks may have misinterpreted my intent. If you think back, my paper was listed as a “White Paper” and was never submitted as a scientific paper for peer review to any organization. To be honest, I have all the respect in the world for guys like you that are trained scientists. God knows I wish I hadn’t let my high school sweetheart side track my life objectives as I’ve paid the price in many ways ever since. Ha! – If I had the brains for it my dream would have been to work in theoretical physics. Having tried, failed and been relegated to a lab rat at Fermi lab would have been enough reward for me.
So… I know full well what it takes to develop a “true” model intended for the scientific community and to be honest, I really don’t have what it takes. Specifically, I can’t do the math. Algebra and trig are my limits. I do understand most of the Calculus principles of derivatives, integration, differentiation, limits, etc… but I can’t do the equations. I swear before I’m pushing daisies I’m gonna learn it though.
Not to boast, but even the guys at Crown were a bit surprised to find that I’m basically self-taught with only a high school education. I studied electronics during lunch breaks, weekends and summer vacations while working as a metal hardware buffer at a casket hardware manufacturing company (sweat shop) from 1979 until 1988. By 1996 I had been the lead engineering technician at Techron/Crown for several years. I guess I do have a bit of an attitude about “Prima-Donnas” though. Even though for the most part the other engineers (especially Gerald Stanley) weren’t “ivory tower” types, I did have to fight with them to get them to listen to me at times. One feather in my cap is that I did keep fighting once and I’ll bet they were sure glad I did too… I came up with a construction modification for their gradient amp design that saved them over $2M/year.
So anyway… I completely understand what you guys want to see in the way of measurements and proof. To be honest, I could certainly run such a test and maybe even develop it, but I can’t do the math that it would take to pull it all together in a paper. As much as I wish I could, I have to face the fact that I’ll probably never be one of you guys… and that’s OK. All I ever wanted was to give others with more mental and material means than myself “possibly” a direction to follow for further inquiry. My hope was that somebody else would pick up the torch and take the idea to its end – right or wrong. I just saw what appeared to be a connection and possibly the explanation for the observations… is all. The heck of it is, right or wrong the darn thing tracks pretty well with observations. If that hadn’t jumped out at me like a big red flag, I would never have taken it as far as I did. Anyway, hopefully somebody with more brains and a much better lab than I have can follow up to see if there’s something to this. You gotta all remember though, this is audio… we do this for FUN! 🙂
scott wurcer,
Thanks for giving me the time of day! I wondered about something like that but I didn’t know if ambient thermal fluctuations might not mess things up. That’s why I mentioned the feedback-controlled oven in my paper. Secondary to that I’m pretty sure my poor old TEF just doesn’t have the resolution. What I need is a new Audio Precision… yeah baby! You wouldn’t get me out of the lab for 6 months if I could lay my grubby paws on one of those puppies. Someday maybe. :-( Thanks again though!
Fdegrove,
Thanks a lot… that’s just dandy. Now I’ll never get any work done – Cool!!!
KBK,
Dude… you think too much!!! 🙂 Thanks for the support! 🙂
Tony,
Yeah… and times are really tough these days. I learned though while trying to save SP Tech from its inevitable demise that life is too short – screw it all… 60 hours either does it or the family and I start pan handling somewhere warm.
Cbdb,
I was misled by similar info. See the link on my previous posting that refers to the Google book, page 244. 1/f noise does manifest in AC systems. Stupid me, now I gotto go back and re-write the paper. 😡
Danielwritesbac,
Yeah… I basically gave stuff away in the past just to get SP Tech’s name out there. When you don’t have money for advertising and you screwed up by making your hobby your source of personal income… you’re screwed. It’s a long story with investors that reneged and whatnot, but the upshot was we had no funds for advertising and had to sell everything we made to try and outrun the overhead to keep from going belly up. So… “make the deal to get the sale so we can eat again for the next couple of weeks” desperation drove everything and then "wing-it from there with your fingers crossed" was all the planning we could do. Although I didn’t raise the MSRP any on our speaker line, you can bet Aether Audio will never get into that mess. I just couldn’t take it again. Ya know… after all these years I still don’t own and never have owned a pair of my own speakers - not even a pair of my little Timepiece Minis. Everything had to sell in order to make the mortgage payment. Pathetic, eh? 🙄
Yep… that’s the only way to do it. These guys need to think… “how can you tell just how nice a painting really is when your glasses are dirty.” It doesn’t do one bit of good trying to adjust front-end equipment when its all being filtered by a crappy, distortion laden speaker. If you can hear any differences at all, you’re not likely to be able to tell which device sounds better than the other – just that they are different. Just like trouble shooting a busted amp, you start at the outputs and work your way back to the input. Speakers are horrible things to begin with, so the least you should do is to refine it as much as possible first. Once you start to hear that some other piece is starting to sound sucky, maybe then you change it. But after that you go back and improve the speaker again. I’m convinced that you should put as much as 80% of the system cost into the speaker and then scrape to get by with the rest until you get a few more bucks.
Yeah man… a metal roof is the ticket. 😎 To heck with the cell phones… I hate ‘em anyway. If I ever get the bucks, that’s what I’m putting on the place. But dude… this old fart ain’t going up on THAT roof. 😱 I even built a recording studio once (well… it was gonna be until the ex decided she needed new “friends”) out of an old stone building that was on my property (now hers… don’t it figure). The thing had a 6/12 pitch and it didn’t bother me one bit… but it was only one story. The frick’n “barn” I’m living in now is two stories with 10-foot ceilings AND what looks to be a 6/12. I won’t even let a friend or family member work on this sucker. If anybody falls to their death, I don’t even want to know their name!
Take care all! 🙂
-Bob
Dear Sir,
I believe you folks may have misinterpreted my intent. If you think back, my paper was listed as a “White Paper” and was never submitted as a scientific paper for peer review to any organization. To be honest, I have all the respect in the world for guys like you that are trained scientists. God knows I wish I hadn’t let my high school sweetheart side track my life objectives as I’ve paid the price in many ways ever since. Ha! – If I had the brains for it my dream would have been to work in theoretical physics. Having tried, failed and been relegated to a lab rat at Fermi lab would have been enough reward for me.
So… I know full well what it takes to develop a “true” model intended for the scientific community and to be honest, I really don’t have what it takes. Specifically, I can’t do the math. Algebra and trig are my limits. I do understand most of the Calculus principles of derivatives, integration, differentiation, limits, etc… but I can’t do the equations. I swear before I’m pushing daisies I’m gonna learn it though.
Not to boast, but even the guys at Crown were a bit surprised to find that I’m basically self-taught with only a high school education. I studied electronics during lunch breaks, weekends and summer vacations while working as a metal hardware buffer at a casket hardware manufacturing company (sweat shop) from 1979 until 1988. By 1996 I had been the lead engineering technician at Techron/Crown for several years. I guess I do have a bit of an attitude about “Prima-Donnas” though. Even though for the most part the other engineers (especially Gerald Stanley) weren’t “ivory tower” types, I did have to fight with them to get them to listen to me at times. One feather in my cap is that I did keep fighting once and I’ll bet they were sure glad I did too… I came up with a construction modification for their gradient amp design that saved them over $2M/year.
So anyway… I completely understand what you guys want to see in the way of measurements and proof. To be honest, I could certainly run such a test and maybe even develop it, but I can’t do the math that it would take to pull it all together in a paper. As much as I wish I could, I have to face the fact that I’ll probably never be one of you guys… and that’s OK. All I ever wanted was to give others with more mental and material means than myself “possibly” a direction to follow for further inquiry. My hope was that somebody else would pick up the torch and take the idea to its end – right or wrong. I just saw what appeared to be a connection and possibly the explanation for the observations… is all. The heck of it is, right or wrong the darn thing tracks pretty well with observations. If that hadn’t jumped out at me like a big red flag, I would never have taken it as far as I did. Anyway, hopefully somebody with more brains and a much better lab than I have can follow up to see if there’s something to this. You gotta all remember though, this is audio… we do this for FUN! 🙂
scott wurcer,
Thanks for giving me the time of day! I wondered about something like that but I didn’t know if ambient thermal fluctuations might not mess things up. That’s why I mentioned the feedback-controlled oven in my paper. Secondary to that I’m pretty sure my poor old TEF just doesn’t have the resolution. What I need is a new Audio Precision… yeah baby! You wouldn’t get me out of the lab for 6 months if I could lay my grubby paws on one of those puppies. Someday maybe. :-( Thanks again though!
Fdegrove,
Thanks a lot… that’s just dandy. Now I’ll never get any work done – Cool!!!
KBK,
Dude… you think too much!!! 🙂 Thanks for the support! 🙂
Tony,
Yeah… and times are really tough these days. I learned though while trying to save SP Tech from its inevitable demise that life is too short – screw it all… 60 hours either does it or the family and I start pan handling somewhere warm.
Cbdb,
I was misled by similar info. See the link on my previous posting that refers to the Google book, page 244. 1/f noise does manifest in AC systems. Stupid me, now I gotto go back and re-write the paper. 😡
Danielwritesbac,
Yeah… I basically gave stuff away in the past just to get SP Tech’s name out there. When you don’t have money for advertising and you screwed up by making your hobby your source of personal income… you’re screwed. It’s a long story with investors that reneged and whatnot, but the upshot was we had no funds for advertising and had to sell everything we made to try and outrun the overhead to keep from going belly up. So… “make the deal to get the sale so we can eat again for the next couple of weeks” desperation drove everything and then "wing-it from there with your fingers crossed" was all the planning we could do. Although I didn’t raise the MSRP any on our speaker line, you can bet Aether Audio will never get into that mess. I just couldn’t take it again. Ya know… after all these years I still don’t own and never have owned a pair of my own speakers - not even a pair of my little Timepiece Minis. Everything had to sell in order to make the mortgage payment. Pathetic, eh? 🙄
Yep… that’s the only way to do it. These guys need to think… “how can you tell just how nice a painting really is when your glasses are dirty.” It doesn’t do one bit of good trying to adjust front-end equipment when its all being filtered by a crappy, distortion laden speaker. If you can hear any differences at all, you’re not likely to be able to tell which device sounds better than the other – just that they are different. Just like trouble shooting a busted amp, you start at the outputs and work your way back to the input. Speakers are horrible things to begin with, so the least you should do is to refine it as much as possible first. Once you start to hear that some other piece is starting to sound sucky, maybe then you change it. But after that you go back and improve the speaker again. I’m convinced that you should put as much as 80% of the system cost into the speaker and then scrape to get by with the rest until you get a few more bucks.
Yeah man… a metal roof is the ticket. 😎 To heck with the cell phones… I hate ‘em anyway. If I ever get the bucks, that’s what I’m putting on the place. But dude… this old fart ain’t going up on THAT roof. 😱 I even built a recording studio once (well… it was gonna be until the ex decided she needed new “friends”) out of an old stone building that was on my property (now hers… don’t it figure). The thing had a 6/12 pitch and it didn’t bother me one bit… but it was only one story. The frick’n “barn” I’m living in now is two stories with 10-foot ceilings AND what looks to be a 6/12. I won’t even let a friend or family member work on this sucker. If anybody falls to their death, I don’t even want to know their name!
Take care all! 🙂
-Bob
Hmm, even Greeks do not understand this😀
There is more quality-loss in socalled high-end wiring than folks, included Greeks knows. To this day I haven`t seen any cable-manufakturer doing it right, even if this weird guy at least started out on the right track:
Virtual Dynamics - Audiophile Audio Cable
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I would say that most cable manufacturers I know are doing their cables the "traditional" way.Some variations to the R,L,C ,shielding and insulations,also metals and metal purity.If you believe that all the above(plus others that I may ignore)contribute to the final performance,then your chances to make a "better" cable are good.
As I`ve pointed out before; the most important parameter to reduce loss is to lower resistance. This means thick solid conductors, no stranded, flat or anything else fancy.
Some stuff here, but meashuring is one thing😉
Effects of wire diameter and spacing
Dear Bob,
I don't think it is about education or being scientific, we amateurs don't need to be that, but it is more about standing on firm ground.
So if you have heard something like a shot, you would probably look for a victim or someone with a gun first, before talking about motives and suspects.
Sorry, I watched to much crime storys on tv. 🙄
Regards
I don't think it is about education or being scientific, we amateurs don't need to be that, but it is more about standing on firm ground.
So if you have heard something like a shot, you would probably look for a victim or someone with a gun first, before talking about motives and suspects.
Sorry, I watched to much crime storys on tv. 🙄
Regards
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Hi Bob, you have been very open about yourself, and I appreciate it. Please be careful, though, as many here, do not have your best intentions at heart.
Jack Bybee has looked at your paper. He commends you for the amount of work that you have put into it. He also finds it confusing at times. Perhaps, you could call him and talk to him, yourself. We should be able to arrange this.
To me, the most important thing about your 'white paper' is that you did the research, AND you trust the ears of yourself and your colleagues. This is what makes you significantly different from many others.
You have correlated the general listening agreement as to how different metals used in wires, sound, i.e. copper sounds soft, silver sounds clear, etc, with a known effect, the Debye effect, with good fit. You have also pointed out some of the latest directions in wire research, for example, amorphous, rather than crystalline structure, as being perhaps better.
Whether all specific details of your paper will hold up under 'scientific' scrutiny, I somehow doubt, but until a better model is found, so be it. This works pretty well.
It must be remembered that Type 1 superconductivity was not well understood for about 75 years, but that did not mean that it was a product of the 'imagination', and that people did not exploit its characteristics.
Type 2 superconductivity is still debated as to its origin.
Jack Bybee has looked at your paper. He commends you for the amount of work that you have put into it. He also finds it confusing at times. Perhaps, you could call him and talk to him, yourself. We should be able to arrange this.
To me, the most important thing about your 'white paper' is that you did the research, AND you trust the ears of yourself and your colleagues. This is what makes you significantly different from many others.
You have correlated the general listening agreement as to how different metals used in wires, sound, i.e. copper sounds soft, silver sounds clear, etc, with a known effect, the Debye effect, with good fit. You have also pointed out some of the latest directions in wire research, for example, amorphous, rather than crystalline structure, as being perhaps better.
Whether all specific details of your paper will hold up under 'scientific' scrutiny, I somehow doubt, but until a better model is found, so be it. This works pretty well.
It must be remembered that Type 1 superconductivity was not well understood for about 75 years, but that did not mean that it was a product of the 'imagination', and that people did not exploit its characteristics.
Type 2 superconductivity is still debated as to its origin.
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Yes,you seem to watch too much TV.Otherwise,normally you should take some cover just in case the murderer would like to shoot another one 😀
Personally I am looking for a place to get to cover. I could care less who was shot or who is the shooter. My butt is the only thing that matters. I will let God sort out the details 🙂
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